Welcome to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers Podcast. Today we have a really interesting podcast for you in a lot of different ways.
Today I'm talking with Harry Massey and Harry does something that you've probably never heard of or thought about in your life. Harry has a company that helps people increase their energy and increase their well being with something called infoceuticals. Now, I've never heard that term either so we spent a long time trying to get to the bottom of how infoceuticals work, for me to understand it a little bit, and then how to do you convey something that somebody has never heard of.
That's where the convincing part of the 8-Profit Activators come in. When you've got something that requires some education, you'll see we're concerned about how do we compel people to raise their hand so that we can have the conversation that introduces the idea, a brand new idea, to them in a way that's compelling and convincing that they would want to try something.
This episode goes a little bit longer than most of the episodes, but you'll see why. I'll share some examples of other kind of parallels to Harry's challenge of why it's important to just get the conversation started with the right people, how to narrow your focus to the right people or enough people that you can have a meaningful dialog with and then learn from those interactions to something you could scale to the rest of the world.
If you have something that can help everybody everywhere, which is kind of where we started this conversation, you'll see that sometimes the best way to approach it is to start with some artificial constraints that will produce a more manageable environment for you.
I think you're really going to enjoy this episode in thinking through how this could work for your business.
I would recommend as a supplement to this episode, you listen to the episode on I love marketing that Joe Polish and I did with Damon John on the power of broke, because we talk about this local scaling up there too. It's a nice supplement to this episode.
Want to be a guest on the show? Simply follow the 'Be a Guest' link on the left & I'll be in touch.
Download a free copy of the Breakthrough DNA book all about the 8 Profit Activators we talk about here on More Cheese, Less Whiskers...
Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 016
Dean: Harry Massey, I presume?
Harry: Hey, Dean. How are you doing?
Dean: I am fantastic, how are you?
Harry: I'm good. I'm good.
Dean: It seems like just yesterday we were having lunch in Phoenix.
Harry: It was. It was. I just had some cheese for breakfast, and now I talk about cheese.
Dean: Okay, perfect. Well, we're recording right now. We'll go for an hour, and we'll hatch as many evil schemes as we can, so whatever you want to talk about. I'm anxious to hear some of the things you've been working on and the direction you're going, but everybody listening, why don't you kind of set the stage for who you are and what you do so we can kind of narrow in on the kind of evil schemes we'll be hatching today.
Harry: Sure. Well, basically, 20 years ago, I ended up with chronic fatigue for about ten years, and after that, I ended up inventing this Total WellNES System which is basically a device where you can put your hand on a device, and it'll read the energy of your body field and basically give you a health analysis, which we sell the system to practitioners. Then from that, our practitioners basically help people get their health back and then recommend these remedies, which we call Infoceuticals, which basically trigger a healing response back in the body.
Dean: What do you call them again? What's that word?
Harry: Infoceuticals, which is a hybrid of information and pharmaceutical. In other words-
Dean: Infoceuticals. Okay, great. What kinds of ... Describe the experience that somebody might have and the result that they might get. What are we talking about here? Just to kind of set the stage, are we going to be talking today about attracting individuals to use this device or practitioners who are going to do this?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, there's two parts to the business. One, obviously we try and attract more practitioners, and then the second is to help our practitioners get clients. Yeah, I'd like to talk more about how we help our practitioners get client because in two weeks' time at our annual conference, we're launching basically a cloud-based membership platform, which means from a two weeks' time, all of our practitioner's clients can go home and see all their scan results online. They can also be remotely scanned online, and we can also provide them all of the sort of knowledge that they need to help transform the health and life ...
Dean: The practitioners will be kind of providing this on a local basis, right, because you have to physically go somewhere to get the scan, so I might be, if I'm a practitioner, I might be a local practitioner here in Orlando, and I'd be drawing people from my local area. Is that the general idea?
Harry: Historically, that's the case, but now, because of this remote technology, basically a practitioner can see anybody anywhere, and they don't need to have a physical office anymore.
Dean: Okay, and what about the device? Would they have to be in person to do that, right?
Harry: No, no. We basically just drop ship that to people's homes, and in January, we're introducing a very small little scanner that plugs into your phone so people can basically just do it from their phone, have all their results, then have a Skype call with a practitioner and have their results interpreted, and then all the product is drop shipped on the company on behalf of the practitioner.
Dean: Okay, great. No matter what, in order to attract the practitioners, the best way to attract them and the way we're going to have to help them is to equip them to find people who want the result, so let's focus initially on the individuals so that we can get a sense of how to best equip the practitioners to find these individuals, so let's start with the result that somebody can get. Who is this for, and what are the things that might lead them to seek something like this out, and what's the transformational result that they can get?
Harry: I mean, generally it's people who have gone through a route with traditional medicine or biochemistry and haven't got a result, and then we have all sorts of different conditions, and I guess if we took my own pace as an example, I was bed bound with chronic fatigue and ended up meeting a scientist who invented the Infoceuticals that basically helped get me better, so one major benefit is basically increasing your energy so you can get your health back.
Dean: Okay, and so what would the ... You mentioned chronic fatigue, what would be, just so I get a sense of this top three or four types of conditions that people might have that this would be absolutely a homerun for?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, definitely for fatigue, depression, anxiety, all sorts of different nervous system problems. I mean, to be honest, it's pretty good at most health problems.
Dean: At what kind of problems, did you say?
Harry: Pretty much all health problems.
Dean: Okay, great, so you can understand then that that poses some challenge where, as far as reaching out to people, before unit, it's ... People search for very specific things. The only person that it's convenient to bundle that we can solve all the problems is the practitioner. Hey, whatever ailment you've got, we can help you out, but if we can narrow it down to a specific thing, that would be the beginning of it.
Harry: Yeah, to narrow it down, it would all be around energy because number one my story was a lack of energy to increased energy, and I guess number two, are systems able to read people's energy and correct it? I would basically put it all around lack of energy, and the benefit would be to increase people's energy, and if you're able to increase people's energy, all sorts of great health benefits come out of that.
Dean: Yeah, absolutely. I would love to have more energy. When you looked at ... So, it doesn't necessarily even have to be an ailment, per say. It could be somebody who wants peak performance maybe even in a way, right?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, to meet all the advertising regulations, we have to do it around performance and wellness and energy anyway.
Dean: Okay, perfect. When we look at the process here, so we've found somebody who wants more energy, is maybe to the point where they have chronic fatigue or they're kind of undiagnosed or borderline chronic fatigue, just that kind of general malaise or just fatigue in general here, what would be the protocol or what would happen if I could just deliver you somebody who says, "You know what? I'm really fatigued. I would love more energy." What would be the steps that you would take here? What would be my journey in the during unit here with you?
Harry: The first thing we would do is we would send them a scanner in the post and then connect. Then we would connect them up to a practitioner so then they would then receive a scanner in the post connected into their computer, and it basically very easily does a scan on them. Then they basically end up speaking to the practitioner who interprets their results and then coaches them around how they can get more energy, and then they also drop ship those Infoceuticals which basically trigger a healing response back in their body, and if you combine that with their change in habits, then they end up getting the result of more energy.
Dean: Okay, and so how would the scan ... What kinds of things are you measuring with the scan that would be sort of benchmarking numbers?
Harry: We look at every single organ system like brain, heart, liver, kidney, etc. We also look at all the major meridian systems. We look at their emotions and nutrition and environmental factors as well.
Dean: Okay, so when I hook up the scan, is it like a series of ... Do I put different devices on my body, or is it ... Do I put it on my finger? Is it a helmet or what-
Harry: Oh, yeah, sorry. I didn't describe that.
Dean: No, it's okay. I'm trying to get a visual of it.
Harry: At the moment, it's very like the mouse that you're probably using on your computer right now, so you've just got a hand on a mouse.
Dean: Very comfortable. I just kind of ... I'm not ...
Harry: No, we're not drawing blood or anything.
Dean: No, and I don't have to shave my chest and stick these electrodes all over my body.
Harry: You can, Dean, if you want.
Dean: Okay, and wear it for a week and all that stuff. How long does it take to scan?
Harry: Five seconds.
Dean: Okay, great, so I just literally ... I put it on. I hook it up to the computer. I put my hand on it, and this will tell me in five seconds, it will give me ... Will it sort of say, okay, there's something off with your kidney, or something off with your liver, or your heart, or your lungs, or ... Is that the kind of thing? Is it just a diagnostic tool?
Harry: Yeah, so, I guess in terms of the energy technology, it's basically looking at the energy field produced by each of those organs, and if for instance, let's say your heart is weak, and it's not producing a strong magnetic field, it'll show that.
Dean: I got you. Okay, and so you benchmark that against optimal and show where you range on a scale kind of thing. Is that how it would ...
Harry: Yeah, it's on a pretty simple scale. It's just naught to five, and if a five comes up, it basically means we ... It all depends what the test is, but all of them have a particular Infoceutical to each test, and then all of them have some, what I call, self-help and health recommendations. Let's say your liver came up. That might also recommend some dietary changes and the ways you can have a cleaner liver along with some product that will help clean and detox via your liver, so yeah, every test has a different outcome.
Dean: Okay, so step one, I take this scan. It tells me where there might be some less than optimal energy points in my body coming from my organs, and then the practitioner will then prescribe some Infoceuticals. Talk about that because that is the protocol kind of thing that you would recommend for people?
Harry: Yeah, absolutely, especially based on ... In pretty much most of medicine in both traditional and alternative medicine, most of it is based on sort of conventional biochemistry, but if you look at biology from the physics point of view, you can basically get new insights and ways of stimulating healing responses. There's been quite a few researchers over the past 20 odd years that have looked into how water can contain a memory, and to cut a long story short, the scientists that we've been working with basically managed to record information from healthy tissue, so we can record the information of like a healthy heart cell or a healthy liver cell or kidney cell, and then we can imprint that information into a liquid, and you basically drink that liquid, it'll basically stimulate healing response back to that healthy blueprint.
Dean: Wow, that sounds almost too ... It sounds crazy.
Harry: It sounds crazy, but there's quite a few Nobel Prize Laureates looking at this area, and well, it all stems from basically 200 years ago when homeopathy was invented, which used to be relatively effective, but basically, in homeopathy, you basically dilute a liquid with a substance that would cause a symptom, and we basically said why dilute with something like Nux Vomica which would make you throw up if you took a lot of it. Why not imprint a liquid with healthy information?
It's basically a 180-degree shift from homeopathy, which has ended up making it much more effective, and there's been a ... There's a scientist called Luc Montagnier who he won the Nobel Prize for discovering the AIDS virus, and he's basically shown how you can sort of imprint information into a liquid, add a lot of DNA base pairs, and basically the information is able to instruct the DNA base pairs to create a new protein, which long and short basically shows how information can create a genetic expression in the body.
Dean: Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, you're seeing now ... I'm amazed by all of the things that we're learning about DNA and about the ways that we can impact it. I just read about some scientists that were able to embed digital information into a DNA strand, and other scientists were able to pull it out, and it was three digital photos that they were able to embed in the DNA code, which is just fascinating to me, right? There are four or five characters in the DNA strand?
Harry: A, C, T, and H.
Dean: Four, so there's A, C, T, H, and they were able to basically take two of those because in digital there's only ones and zeros, so they basically would use two of the letters, and then they created this sort of hashtag or zip code sort of area so we could find where it is. It starts here, ends here, and then embedded the digital information in the strand. It's crazy, right, to think that you could do that kind of thing?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, there's this whole rise of, I guess you would call it information is medicine, which has never really been thought about, but it's exactly that. You can read information out of the body, and then you can also put information back in the body and ultimately information is if you like the sort of ultimate control system.
Dean: Well, it does make sense that the more we learn about it, we really are ... Our whole systems are information. It's all ones and zeros. That's really the whole thing, so I think it's fascinating to see what's going on here, so okay, let me get back to the layperson understanding of this, so I'm talking about me as the layperson here. I put my hand on this mouse. It reads in five seconds. It can tell the areas of low energy, low magnetic energy, which are all going to, in some way, have an effect on my overall sense of well being and energy, right? Am I reading that right so far, okay? Then, with these Infoceuticals, is this something that I would ingest? I take a pill? Tell me what I do.
Harry: Yeah, they're basically just little bottles of liquid, and you literally just drop about nine or ten drops in a glass of water and drink the glass of water, so yeah, it's pretty straightforward.
Dean: They're flavorless, and ...
Harry: It's highly mineralized water that's had information imprinted on it, on the ions in the water.
Dean: Okay, and I do this once a day or several times a day or how ...
Harry: Yeah, you just do it once a day for 30 days, and then you would be re-scanned to see how your body feels and energy of all your organ systems are doing, and then generally those ones have been corrected, and there will be a different set of priorities and then go on to sort of peel the next level of your energy.
Dean: What would I have found in that 30 days? What would be ... Is there a typical scenario? Is there an immediate effect? Is it a slow and gradual effect? What do people report?
Harry: It's generally a bit like a tailored ... It's like the opposite of an exponential curve, so generally in the first few days, you get a stronger, like I say, a stronger reaction, and it all depends which ones you're taking, but things like your liver, if you detox the liver a bit strongly, you might get some symptoms from that as it cleans out, but other ones, such as your heart and kidneys, generally you just get a rise in energy and feel better.
Dean: How long does it take to get the more energy?
Harry: I mean, a lot of the effect comes in the first 10 to 12 days, and then it's a lesser effect after that because you've had a lot of the reaction.
Dean: Okay, and how would people rate that because I imagine energy is one of these things that very hard to pin down with a quantitative measure to it as just a general sense-
Harry: We do have like a wellness ... When people visit a practitioner in person, in our old version of software, we do have basically a naught to five where people can rate how they're doing on the main reason that they came to visit the practitioner, but what we could do, which I haven't thought about, when people are having a scan at home, they could rate themselves, I guess, on a naught to five or a naught to ten scale of how much energy they have, and then they could see their progress.
Dean: Do you see people reporting dramatic improvement? What's a general sense of how people react once they've had this protocol?
Harry: I mean, it can be pretty dramatic obviously if you're being very sick and bed bound and you get your health and life back, that's completely transformational.
Dean: Okay, yeah, absolutely. That's why I was asking about the ... What are the things that are most dramatic? What are the things that are most transformational. I'll give you an example because Luba Winter has a device that provides like a nonsurgical face lift. It's got red and blue LED light with ultrasound and galvanic waves, and this is kind of just a flat, sort of stainless steel, round thing that people rub on their face, and it stimulates the elastin and collagen and kills bacteria and plumps the skin and removes the wrinkles, and so it's been sold as a beauty device.
It can make a difference in people's appearance, tightening loose skin, get rid of wrinkles, those kind of things, but those are sort of a general approach, but where it has a transformational difference is in acne, that it will cure people's adult acne because it goes to the source. It kills the bacteria, and it stimulates elastin and collagen, so rather than just like treating it with a topical, it's something that will now treat it from the source and create beautiful, fresh, new skin basically.
When we were focusing on the approach to marketing this, that was where I gravitated towards the transformational difference, the visible transformational difference that you can make because somebody who has acne and has a challenge with that, they know that they would love to get rid of that, and it's crystal clear to see that it's absolutely working. You can, in 30, 60, and 90 days have an incredible transformation very quickly in 30 days and by 90 days completely transformed.
It was very similar because the device does so many things, helps people in so many ways, and can help women or anybody with skin everywhere, it's such a broad appeal, and my advice to her was to focus on if you can help people everywhere with everything, is let's place some kind of artificial constraints on this, and if we're going to cure all the acne in the world, let's start with Portland and cure all the acne in Portland.
Where this kind of reminds me of that is I'm thinking is there anything that, like you're saying chronic fatigue, or are there any things that specific symptom-based disease things or condition or ailments that this lends itself to a very clear this made the difference rather than just a generalized kind of sense of energy?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, probably chronic fatigue would be a good one to pick.
Dean: Is there things like would you put ... help with other things like fibromyalgia or pain type of things or just sort of nervous system energy type of things?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia are very closely linked. I don't know if I want to confuse the picture. I'll confuse it anyway. We also have another handheld device called a MiHealth which is specifically targeted at the pain end, but it's sort of outside of this cloud experience.
Dean: Okay, if we look at chronic fatigue, that would the thing where, in 30 days, somebody can make a pretty ... They would have a nice result from that.
Harry: Yeah, for sure.
Dean: Have you done a lot of documenting like that ... What sort of efficacy level does it have?
Harry: We've done 14 different studies, but we did one specifically on chronic fatigue\fibromyalgia with ... Yeah, we have 67 patients with that. I'm trying to remember the statistics. I think it was like 78% had a large benefit in the first three months. I can't remember exactly what the research paper said, but anyway the trial came out good is the long and short of it.
Dean: Awesome, yeah, I mean, with 78% ... Because that's one of the things that people would constantly be on the lookout for, people searching for that, for relief from that, or just don't want to be resigned to it. How long ... Is this something that somebody would then continue with the Infoceuticals for indefinitely, or is it for a short period of time and then they're done, or what's the protocol?
Harry: That's a good question because I've thinking about how to package that. I mean, generally, to date, people see practitioners for all sorts of different periods like sometimes they see a practitioner for six months or a year, sometimes just a few months. Well, it's really controlled by how practitioner runs their practice, but what we'd like to do is, on their behalf, sell the home wellness program, so either a three or a six-month program where we can say basically I then like to do a study to reverse engineer that so if we said, for instance, I don't know. Let's say it was $1200 for a six-month program where you're going to be scanned, coached, and have the Infoceuticals, and we had, let's say, 1000 people go through that, and these were the results. I think that's probably where I'd want to end up.
Dean: I mean, so you would keep a running tally on it as people go through.
Harry: Yeah, because everything is in the cloud. We can literally display in real time-
Dean: And you could see the numbers-
Harry: ... exactly what our results are.
Dean: Yeah, if somebody were getting measured for the first time, somebody with chronic fatigue, how many different measurements are being rated between naught and five? Just the major organs, or are there multi checklists of ratings?
Harry: The scan tests 400 different things, but we don't necessarily have to display all those. I think we're only going to display about 50 or 60 of those. Maybe we should display less actually. Then the thing that they might rate themselves at would just be a singular number.
Dean: It's interesting that it might be corresponding if there were a ... This would be the numbers that somebody with chronic fatigue, I would imagine that they would rate lower on the scale then, right, because it would be like a systemic low energy. It would be from overall, or would there be everything's firing great, but it's their kidney is really low, or there liver is really low?
Harry: I mean, the thing with fatigue is it can't ... There can be different reasons for it, like if someone's endocrine system, i.e. adrenals, kidneys, were not working, that can make you feel like death, but it's not the only reason. It could also be like cellular toxicity, or it could be the thyroid. I mean, there are all different reasons for sure.
Dean: Then you would be able to show graphically the improvement over time as they're getting scanned that you're seeing this going from one to two to three, and is the ultimate goal that we're at a five for everything, or is five as much of a problem as zero as in we're looking for balance of a three on everything?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, the scan's actually ... The physics of it is a little bit peculiar, but it's actually a relative system, so let's say the kidney was the main issue this month, and you corrected that. When you sort of unpeel that layer, then the next time you go, it might be the time to detox via the liver, and so that will display as a three or four, so it's not quite that you can save all of these numbers ...
Dean: Okay, so you're not going to get to a point where we're dialing it in, and everything's firing on all cylinders. That wouldn't be what this test would indicate. This is relative, so-
Harry: Yeah, it's relative, although we could probably do one overall general energy test. I think that would be possible.
Dean: Well, you'd almost have to. I mean, it seems like, if you're going to document improvement, if there's test after test, it would seem like having some level of sense of improvement on it would be important, I guess, to document. I think that part of the thing that I'm trying to do here then is ... We basically have it done to, if you take this, do this scan, we'll identify systemically which things are relatively causing lower energy, and let's test and create some Infoceutical water or drops that you can take with water. Try this for 30 days, and we should see a difference in the energy.
Dean: How much would that cost to do something like that, just so I get an idea?
Harry: Yes, it's an undefined question because historically practitioners charge whatever they want, but they generally charge about, I think, about $120 for the five Infoceuticals that we sell to them for $60 and then their own time. Their own time varies depending on their qualifications, but it's generally between $75 and $150 for an hour of their time.
Dean: Okay, and so my total cost to test something like this might be in the neighborhood of $150 or $200, is that right?
Harry: Yeah, but including the solutions ...
Dean: That's what I mean because they're going to ... Did you say there are six or five different formulas, the Infoceuticals?
Harry: Yeah, five.
Dean: There's five different Infoceuticals, so it's not a customized one in terms of this is specific.
Harry: There's a range of 72, and then the scan tells you which of the five out of that 72 that you need.
Dean: I got you. Okay, and so am I doing ... Would it be in one bottle, or I'm doing five different drops?
Harry: Five bottles.
Dean: It would be five different bottles that I'm doing one drop of each or two drops of each?
Harry: Yeah, you do ten drops of each.
Dean: Okay, so there's a little bit of preparation in this in a way, so it takes me a little bit of time to do that, right, to drop that in the water every morning, but if I'm the kind of person that's doing my bulletproof-
Harry: You could mix it. You can get a big liter bottle of water and put all of the bottles in it and then just pour a quarter of a glass each day for 30 days. I mean, yeah, you can make it pretty convenient so you don't have to open up 5 bottles every day.
Dean: That makes sense. I would enjoy that better, so it's stable, and you would just shake the bottle, or you wouldn't even need to do that probably. Once it's in, it's in, right?
Harry: Yeah, once it's in, it's in, yeah.
Dean: Okay, I got it, so that makes the compliance a pretty easy thing, so I think that the general idea then is that people, if they're curious about why they are low energy that they would be happy to get a scan like that. I'm curious about presenting this to somebody. When your saying like practitioners, would this be the kind of thing that another sort of practitioner would have as an addition to their practice? Would a chiropractor or a ...
Harry: Yeah, I mean, you'll probably hate this is the target market, but we analyzed our top 20 practitioners the other day, and 18 of them were from different specialties. So we had a chiropractor, a doctor, an energy healer, a nutritionist. It's probably your worst nightmare, but the…
Dean: Everybody everywhere.
Harry: I guess the plus side of that is it has universal appeal to all those types of practitioners.
Dean: I guess the next question was the longevity of it. Is it something that people would do for a longer term thing, or would it be that we'd do it for this 30, 60, or 90 days or maybe six months, but then I'm done, or is it tapering or changing the formula? What would be the ...
Harry: Well, I mean, there's definitely like we have sort of core, they do it forever and keep on taking because there's sort of no end to ... You can beyond the health aspect into performance, so there's not really an upper limit of where it can go, and definitely there are often people that do it for years, but I think a lot of people, if they're really ill and they get well, they just get on with their life because, I think, the problem is gone, but yeah, I mean there might be ways of prolonging that for sure.
Dean: I'm looking at is as how do we ... If we could say that ... Your opportunity as this sort of business owner, you're not looking to do these individually with people, but you're looking to bring in practitioners who would do this individually with people, so is there-
Harry: If I can help, because our other sort of side is making movies, and we recently completed one called Supercharged which is exactly around that topic of how to get more energy, and obviously we're building an audience with that, and we would re-target them with a webinar to basically drive clients into this experience. I maybe never explained that at the beginning, but our funnel would be to get lots of people interested in more energy through the movie and then hold a webinar about the home wellness program, and then sign lots of people up for that, and then we can give our practitioners lots of clients that have already signed up for a three or six-month program. That would be my dream outcome.
Dean: Right. Yeah, that's great because that's simple. I didn't know about the movie, but that was going to be my suggestion was doing a book about the idea of energy, but Supercharged is a great title. The thing about the idea of getting people to raise their hand because it's typically invisible prospects, right? We can't get a list of people who feel low energy in a way, right? You can't target that on Facebook, but I guess you can target people in a certain demographic who might feel that way.
Part of the challenge, if I'm creating a before unit system for this, when we look at it, if I'm a practitioner, which is really who your client would be, and I am looking to you to be an associate, what's my involvement in this? Am I buying software? Am I buying a membership? Am I buying some training? What is it that I have to do to become a practitioner or associate of yours?
Harry: Up until this point and probably for the next few months, our practitioners basically buy what we called the Total WellNES System which includes online training and a four-day in-person training, the software and hardware that does the analysis, that MiHealth device that does the pain part. Yeah, basically they get everything they need, and they just pay once.
I actually followed your risk reversal profit activator methodology probably I think a year ago. How we do that is we ... Basically, instead of sending them an expensive system which was hard for our salespeople to do, we now do this thing that we call Getting Started, which basically means for $500, we give them all the equipment, and we invite them to our four-day training basically so they can have the whole experience for a very cheap amount of money. If they're unhappy, didn't like it, whatever, we give their money back plus an extra $500 for their time and travel. So far, we've had 100% conversion rate. We only introduced about eight months ago, but we've had 100% conversion rate from people who have come to the system, and we haven't had to refund anyone, so that's worked out, and obviously now, we're on that side of the business. We're looking at ways that we can scale that offer through direct mail, and we're just completing a idea which we haven't yet tested in the field, but almost finished all the copy for it.
Dean: Now, if I'm a practitioner in Winter Haven here, I'm interested in how am I going to get people to try this? How am I going to make Winter Haven the most energetic city in America? That's really the thing, right?
Harry: Yeah. Maybe we should write a book that our practitioners can put their name on it.
Dean: That's my point.
Harry: I like that. I'll do a book then.
Dean: That is the way I would look at it because now you've sort of got almost like a syndication. You have to imagine, if we can crack the code for one practitioner to find people in his local marketplace who are interested in getting this scan and increasing their energy, then, as long as there's a past to show that this is a viable business for them, you know? You've got to imagine now, from their standpoint is what would they cheerfully pay for somebody to show up at their facility to do the scan and the protocol?
What I was getting to that was it's very difficult to explain what this is in an ad or a postcard or a direct mail piece. It's a very difficult thing to convince somebody, but what we can do is we can identify the people who we can then convince. This is where I often talk about separating the compelling from the convincing, and so what we ended up doing with Luba was instead of offering and explaining all about this device, we did a book called The Adult Acne Cure, and so we would run Facebook ads to get people to download the book. Then we would engage with the people who downloaded the book in an e-mail dialog to find out how we could help them with their acne.
If we talk about like the title of a book that your ideal prospect would just love to have, start the conversation, right? We're starting with the end in mind here, right? What would be the title of a book that your ideal prospect would say, "That is definitely a book I would like to read," and I love the name of the movie. Supercharged is a great title too.
Harry: Do you think ... I guess before this conversation, well actually I was considering maybe we should write a Supercharged book or a different book called Blowing Out of the Water which would be more about explaining the Infoceuticals because that's quite a big concept to explain, right?
Harry: I think I understand what you're saying, ditch that idea. It's better to go to the target audience, end user, but the other choice one would have is, if we're bundling it with the movie, then it would be a book from Harry and Sarah, but would it be better to basically do a small, easy book that any of our practitioners could stamp their name on it and take Harry and Sarah out of the equation?
Dean: Yes, that's exactly what I would look at is to create that sort of tool, and it's called like a syndication like that, so we've got several of those things that we do with real estate agents. We have a book called How to Sell Your House for Top Dollar Fast, and we allowed the real estate agents to be the author of the book with their picture, their name, their contact information, all of the information coming from them, and so it's an educational kind of piece.
Imagine it would be like the practitioners, and we do this all with our 90-minute book process, so it would be as if the practitioner had the advantage of you coming in to do a one-hour consultation or a one-hour presentation to all the people who are interested in that topic, interested the result of-
Harry: How do you help a practitioner advertise that book because they'd probably struggle on that aspect?
Dean: Absolutely, so that's where you have to create, I call it, a scale-ready algorithm where you have to ... When you solve the problem of how do I, as a practitioner in Winter Haven, get people aware of and interested in and into my office to get their scan and take this system, right? That's ultimately, when you go right down to the base unit of what has to happen here. We have to be able to identify one persona and introduce them to one practitioner and get them on a protocol, so when we figure out how to do that in the best way, with an eye on creating it as if we're going to duplicate it 5,000 times like a franchise type of prototype, what is the thing that will get people to raise their hand? If we offer a book called Supercharged or a book called whatever the-
Harry: Abundant Energy for Life or whatever.
Dean: Abundant Energy for Life or ... You look at this whole ... There's a thing in England of a product that does what it says on the tin, and that is really what we're looking for in a book title, right? I used an example. I talked about Dave Ramsey wrote a book called Financial Peace that somebody in financial turmoil, somebody who's concerned about money, when they see a book called Financial Peace, just touching the hem of that book is going to make it feel much better to them. They feel like having possession of the book is going to get them closer to the result, and that's where things like The 4-Hour Work Week or Think and Grow Rich, all these things that are ... Stop Your Divorce. We did a book called Stop Your Divorce that it says exactly what your trying to articulate.
Abundant Energy is a great set of words because right now I'm really at a kind of loss here. I mean, Yuri Elkaim had a book called The All Day Energy Diet, which again is a great title, right? If we could get a title that somebody who has low energy would read this title and say, "I want that," or "I need that."
Harry: You mean it would be like How to Get Abundant Energy for Life or something like that.
Dean: Yeah. I mean, even just saying Abundant Energy for Life or 16-Hour Energy or whatever the thing that would, in a lot of ways we don't necessarily have to even have the How to, but we can promise the benefit. How to is a good way to kind of create a template for coming up with the words that people would want. You could even drop the How to and just focus on the benefit like Dave Ramsey could have a book called How to Get Financial Peace, but when you take even off the How to, it just amplifies the benefit of financial peace.
Harry: The shortest version is just Abundant Energy.
Dean: That's exactly right, so if you see that, and there's the right image of we're showing that to the right demographic, and people can click and download the book, that's going to get the right people in the conversation, right, but that's not ... Abundant Energy is sort of a generalized thing, and you could also specialize it with approach for chronic fatigue or for the thyroid or for whatever symptomatic type of things that people might have.
Harry: Okay, yeah, got you.
Dean: When you kind of look at that, what we need in order to make this sort of syndicatable is you have to be able to solve the problem on the smallest level, right, the original unit kind of thing, one practitioner in one location. What that allows you to do often is work on creating and testing a prototype to be experimenting in one location to figure out what is the right title of the book? What is the right Facebook ad?
We've got to now take the profit activators and line them up, so we say Product Activator 1, who's our target audience? Let's say that it is 35- to 55-year-old women in Winter Haven who are parents, let's say. It could be a specific target audience, right? Then how Profit Activator 2 ... How do we get them to raise their hands? We show them an opportunity for a book called Abundant Energy.
Harry: How do you get the book out there? I mean, how does a practitioner get everyone in Winter Haven to know that you've got this book?
Dean: You could do that through Facebook. They could do that through per-per-click ads if people are searching on specific keywords, you could do kind of regionally based pay-per-clicks. That's the two main things is people who are searching or people who are in that area. We could target a specific group of people demographically on Facebook, say I want to show this to 35- to 55-year-old women or 40- to 60-year-old women or whatever the target audience might be and test to dial in and see who are the audiences who are more attracted to this? Do we get more response from people who are over 50 than we do people are under 30? Unlikely, right? You kind of look at who your audience would be. Showing them that book where they can click on the ad, it's just offering ... That's what we were doing with The Adult Acne Cure is people click, then they can download a copy of the book, and they're very simple landing pages.
If you go to 90minutebook.com, that's what the landing page looks like, right? Just that. It's just a picture of a book, just the headline, and leave their name and their e-mail address, and those get very high conversion rates because it's offering something that is resonant with people. We're not trying to convince them. All we're doing in Profit Activator 2 is we're trying to compel to identify and build a list of people who are interested in energy or in curing their adult acne or in selling their house for top dollar fast or writing a 90-minute book.
The way I use that for the 90-minute is we run Facebook ads to groups of coaches, information marketers, entrepreneurs, business owners, offering this free book with the idea of can you really write a book in 90 minutes and showing people that they can download a copy of The 90-Minute Book at 90minutebook.com, and then when people download the book, we're able to now engage in a dialog with people who are self-identified as somebody who's interested in whatever the title of the book is.
Harry: Two questions. One, practitioners when we're basically getting practitioners to opt in, in your view, would be the simplest opt-in page for our overall system would be a similar thing. It would just be to a book, which I mean, we have like a 100-page book called Magnify Your Practice with Energy Medicine, but the pages got a lot of information about the company, and we should just strip it out.
Dean: Absolutely, well you want to test it, and I found that the less other options there are, the higher the opt-in rate. If you look at 90minutebook.com, there's no other information. The only choice is download the book or not.
Harry: I mean, I've basically got this one that says yeah, a little video of us saying if you opt in, we'll give you an introduction to the system, this book and access to LivingMatrix, and there's a whole lot of other writing, but is that too many things for an opt-in? Are you best off just one thing per opt-in?
Dean: Well, the only thing I'm interested in is the number of people that opt in? As soon as you put other information in there, typically people will ... They're usually more filters than amplifiers, that it will usually bring response down. I can do things like run a full page ad in Success magazine, bring people to the emailmastery.com webpage, and get a 68% opt-in, and so that is different than if you brought them to a page where there's all kinds of other things for them to get lost in and filter it out sort of thing.
When you look at it, I would look at what is the opt-in rate on the page that you're sending them to and look at how can we just break the job of work down into the individual incremental commitments. Profit Activator 2, the only job of Profit Activator 2 is to get an invisible prospect to become visible, and now they're in Profit Activator 3 where we educate and motivate them, right?
Now somebody who I know that ultimately at the end of the before unit for the Adult Acne Cure is a $900 sale of a device that they've never heard of, but there's a lot of education and convincing that needs to happen to go from first exposure to something to making a $900 sale. It's the same, especially here where there's lots of opportunity there, but there's lots of education that needs to be done, so you start out with the benefit, the awareness. People are not aware of Infoceuticals and aware of the ability of water to be imprinted with information and how that can affect your overall energy. That's not a generally known principle, right? Nobody's buying into that.
Harry: Yeah, well that's why it’s a great way of explaining it all.
Dean: If you can get in front of people who self-identify as people who need and want more energy ...
Harry: Yeah, yeah. Got it.
Dean: That's a valuable thing.
Harry: What do you think of the ... I mean, if you go down that, I don't want how you'd call it, the whole syndication route ... I mean, a danger in my little head, so we've got lots of practitioners out there today that I've seen people of all sorts of different conditions, and just the way that sort of alternative medicine world works is generally they get all the people where western medicine fails. Then they got more alternative, and we end up with all these really hard cases of all sorts of conditions which legally I probably can't even mention, but I was just trying to think if I then try to go to a lot of practitioners and say just go with the whole Abundant Energy, the single target market approach, yeah, I don't think it would go down well with them, at least with the existing people. I mean, with new people, it can be different from the start, but I don't know what you think of that.
Dean: Well, I think that, more specific is better, so I mean, if you can say things like chronic fatigue. When we talk about very specific things, it's very compelling, especially if we have very specific things, especially if it's like chronic fatigue or other names things that people diagnose themselves with or have been diagnosed with that this could help. That's kind of why I was asking in the beginning very specific things of what it could do, and I felt like while the first thing, it felt like you were the broadest thing is energy, so let's focus on that, and I think that the people who have chronic fatigue are a very specific thing if you get ... What would be the title of the book that you would have loved to have had when you were suffering with chronic fatigue?
Harry: Yeah, Going from Chronic Fatigue to Abundant Energy.
Dean: Yes, exactly. I mean, that's it, right?
Harry: I would have read that book, yeah.
Dean: Of course. I mean, Frank Kern is doing a small book all over the internet right now, How to Get High-Paying Consulting Clients Even When Nobody Knows Who You Are, so it's a very specific thing, right, and so How to Have Abundant Energy Even If You've Got Chronic Fatigue ...
Harry: And even people who don't have chronic fatigue but just have slight energy issues. They're probably still going to be attracted to that because it's go the whole scale.
Dean: Right. I think that's the general thing. For the lesson here, the takeaway is you've got something that you're looking to build a network of people, and that could be anybody listening who's got any type of business that they're going to help because your business is sort of business to business in that you're helping these practitioners. You're going into a relationship with them to show them how to get more business, but no matter what, ultimately it has to be about getting in touch with and getting a result for the end user.
All the way, the chain reaction or the chain event there of if you can figure out the puzzle of how to get somebody who's got low energy into the conversation that leads to them getting scanned just to see what they've got to trying these Infoceuticals to getting a result, if you can solve that riddle for people here in Winter Haven, you've solved it for everywhere, and that's where ... A lot of times people start scaling from the top down, and I'm saying you'd scale from the scale-ready algorithm.
You've got to figure out what is it that gets that chain of events to happen? Somebody to identify themselves, engage in a conversation, come in for a scan, and be convinced that the Infoceuticals are going to help them and get a result. You've got the get a result part down. You've got the protocol. Now we just need to get the first four. We need to get in conversation with people and get them to the point where we can help them.
Harry: Would you ... NES has got all these different types of practitioners doing all sorts of different things, and we potentially have this new brand called Supercharged, and we can also create a new type of health coach. Do you think it would be better just to create this, I guess, what do you call it? In effect, it's a new division just specifically focused on that, and obviously I'll keep what's going what's going because if you disrupt things, it can cost.
Dean: Yes, no, exactly, and there's the thing. I mean, you want to ... Part of Profit Activator 1 is selecting a single target market and building a very, what seems like, unique solution for them. I always talk about Procter & Gamble as that ... Procter & Gamble right now has 23 individual billion dollar brands, and none of them are ... They're not advertising them together. They seem completely different, and in a lot of cases, they seem like they compete against each other.
Harry: Yeah, I sort of see NES as this great, I don't know we'd call it, a great big starfish organization in the long run where we can go off through all of these. I mean, we've even got an animal system that I haven't really got ... Well, I won't go into now, but yeah, I mean, that's it's own thing, but yeah, we could have ten very large businesses all on based on different areas.
Dean: But you've got to ... The focus has to be on the scale-ready algorithm, and that's like the stem cell that when you get that, you can say to a practitioner, "Run this ad to this book. Follow this email sequence. Invite them in this way. Here's what we say to educate them, and of course, the book is going to do a lot of the education and motivation and then invite people in to get a scan.
Harry: Can I ask about I think it's your Profit Activator 8, is that the referral one?
Dean: Yeah, orchestrating referrals.
Harry: Orchestrating referrals. I mean, I think I remember when I read it a while ago that I think in your view you don't give any sort of spiel or anything like that. I can't work out how to do it for our practitioners. I was just reading in Joe's book last night. He has a chapter on referrals. If when our practitioners come to our training, is that probably the best time to get a referral from them right then and the name to bring into the next training? I was just wondering if you had any ideas around that?
Dean: Well, so much of the ... If you go to getting gettingreferrals.com, I've written a whole report on the secret psychology of why people refer real estate agents, and the psychology is the same of why do people refer anything really. That's the psychology of it is the same here, but you understand that the real reason people refer anything is because it makes them feel good. They're going to want to introduce their friends to this great new concept because they know about it, and they don't, and so part of it is, if you've got something that you can give them a book to give to somebody. It's not about turning them into salespeople for you. It's about turning them into just introducing you.
Harry: I've got it. I assume you'd give all practitioners a book to give away.
Dean: Well, you would give them the opportunity to get a book to give away when you say, if you hear someone talking about this or about what to do with somebody with chronic fatigue or looking for additional opportunity to do something in their practice, give me a call or text me, and I'll get you a copy of my book, the one you just described that you have for practitioners to give them, and now you're in conversation with them, and you know who that practitioner is rather than just saying, "Hey, tell your friends to come do this," or whatever. We want to just-
Harry: I mean, like if just being three or four days of our training, and they're all super happy and excited right there in the room, if we get them the sheet of paper at the end that said ... I don't know. Maybe it's the feedback form and feedback if you're happy, unhappy, and if you're happy, perhaps you could give us a couple of names of colleagues you think might be interested so we can just send them a book on your behalf.
Dean: I think if you did it the way that you would maybe have gift ... giving them the opportunity to give a gift. Always focus on what they're getting, not on that it's for you, right? If you had ... We're happy to send books anybody that you would like us to, so if you had a card that had the picture of the book, and you said, "Please send this gift book to this person," that would be ... They're going to get that reflected glory then, right? It doesn't sound like or feel like you're just like a multilevel marketing. Give us the names. You must give the names! Give people that opportunity to feel good, which is the best thing.
Harry: You mean give the book, which has got a card-
Dean: Well, you've got a book for them, but yeah, have the cards where you can say we're happy to send a book to any other practitioner that you would like. If you've got friends, you're going to be having these conversations. You've learned a lot. There's a lot of stuff to take in in four days, and of course, all your friends are going to want to know what you talked about. We're happy to send them a copy of the book so that you can make it easier on yourself.
Harry: I guess I'm sort of confused what's on the card. Is it a card they hand-
Dean: It's a card that you hand to them that they can fill out. You're asking about getting them to give the names of the practitioners, right? Instead of saying, hey, just give us the names of some of these practitioners so that we can have our trained salespeople follow up and convert them, that's not what you want. You want to say, "Look, we're happy to give your colleagues a copy of the book as well. There's some of the cards right here. If you just fill out their contact information, we'll send the book with a note from you.
Harry: Got you. Got you.
Dean: See what I mean?
Dean: It's a different tone. You get the result, but you don't get the feeling of-
Harry: Some sales thing.
Dean: Right. Exactly.
Harry: Got you. Got you.
Dean: Perfect. All right, Harry Massey. We packed in a lot of evil scheming here.
Harry: Yeah, no, that was brilliant. That's helped me a lot. Thank you.
Dean: What would you say is your recap? Looking at your notes there. What was the takeaway?
Harry: I would say my recap is ... Yeah, we have this company that's obviously a bit spread out across all sorts of things today, and basically we have this opportunity through Supercharged with a health coach to really follow this very targeted strategy of going down the energy, chronic fatigue target market and being known for health coach which is a new type of practitioner. It's a specialist type of practitioner that's basically specialized on helping people go from chronic fatigue to abundant energy, and we're basically going to systematize that as much as we can. That's my summary.
Dean: That's awesome. Good. Well, I'm excited for you. Lots of opportunity here.
Harry: That's great. Thank you.
Dean: Awesome. Okay, well, do you have the names of some other practitioners that you could give me? I'm just teasing you. I had fun on the call. I think you've got a great opportunity here. I'd love to ... Let's definitely stay connected here, and keep me posted as we're moving forward here.
Harry: Yeah, yeah. I should get your ... Now that you know more about this, do you think we can do this energy book in 90 minutes?
Dean: Yeah, absolutely. I think, here's the thing is that, I think it's the great thing about it is that it forces you to get the most important information out. You approach it, and the way we approach it is, we do a call with you to get the outline of what's the most important things that somebody would need to know about this to go from not knowing anything about it. We're starting with they're interested in abundant energy. We're ending with they're going to be introduced to, educated about this new approach and motivated to take the next step, so what would you say if we were interviewing you on a podcast, and you had one hour to kind of build the case for this? That's the way that we approach it, and then we get that transcribed and turn that into the book.
The most important thing, especially for testing things like this is that you have the title right. The title and the cover and the fact that you have a book is 80% of the ingredients for success of this. It's not ... It's far more important what the title of the book is and the approach that we have than the content of the book even.
Harry: I just thought of a new title, How to go from Zero Energy to Abundant Energy for Life.
Dean: There you go. It's easy to test those kind of things.
Harry: Yeah, perfect. All right. I'll write a 90-minute book.
Dean: Yeah, yes.
Harry: Perfect, perfect.
Dean: Thanks, Harry.
Harry: No, thank you. All right. Take care.
Dean: I'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye.
There we have it. Boy, that was a long episode, but we covered a lot of ground, and I think that the takeaways from this for you are that, no matter what, if you've got something that requires some level of education in order for people to be at a point where they're ready to take action, the very best thing that we can do is in Profit Activator 1, make sure that you've selected exactly the person that you can help.
You heard me talk about The Adult Acne Cure as an example of taking a product that could help multiple people and narrowing it down to one specific target audience, even though you know that we're not taking away or limiting you in any way. We're focusing in and amplifying the one specific thing that you could help.
We ran through some of those ideas with Harry. Now, when you're looking to turn invisible prospects into visible prospects, the thing that makes it easier is when you start with an information piece that promises sort of a benefit that they would love to have, and there's nothing as powerful as a book to do that for you. I mentioned with Harry, I gave him the example of what we've done with The Adult Acne Cure. What I've done personally with our email mastery book, what we've done with hundreds of people through our 90-minute book process.
If you've got something that requires some education, and you've got to sort of build a list of people that you can communicate to so that you can, over a short period of time, do the amount of education that convinces them and motivates them to take action. You may be a perfect candidate for a 90-minute book, and so I would love to help you with that.
First of all, you can start by downloading a copy of the 90-minute book at 90minutebook.com, and you'll see exactly how we go through this process. The 90-minute book that you will download is a product of the 90-minute book process, so it's exactly what we help you do, and you'll see the landing page, that model of landing page offering a book is the highest converting landing page that I've ever used. Nothing beats the conversion of offering somebody a free book with a title that promises a benefit that they would love to be in possession of, so I hope I can help you out with that, 90minutebook.com. Tune in next week, and we will have another great episode of More Cheese, Less Whiskers.