Welcome to the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast and today we're speaking with Henry Reith who’s with Simply Headsets in Australia.
They're the number one headset provider in Australia and have a great business. They've been in business for almost 12 years and as we started talking about it, we uncovered all the things they're doing really well.
They've got a great e-commerce site, they convert a lot of their visitors, they've got a lot of customers. So we talked about the opportunities of converting more leads and some before unit strategies to increase the number of people they can engage with who come to their site.
We also looked at the big opportunity of what to do with their after unit. They've got thousands and thousands of customers and we talked about some predictive ways to generate more business from previous customers.
We had a really great conversation you're going to enjoy.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 074
Henry: Good morning, Dean. How you going?
Dean: I am fantastic. So Henry, how do I say you're last name? Is it Reith or Reith?
Henry: It's the second option there. It's Reith.
Dean: Reith, okay. Well, welcome.
Henry: Thank you very much, and thank you for having me.
Dean: It's late for you.
Henry: It is pretty late. It is pretty late, but some calls are worth putting the extra time in in a day and really waiting for.
Dean: Oh, that's so great. So, where in the world are you calling from right now?
Henry: So, I'm calling from Melbourne, in Australia.
Henry: And so, we've had our Friday. I know this is a Friday morning for you, so we've had our entire Friday, and I can truly say it was a great Friday, so you can look forward to it.
Dean: That's fantastic. Well, my Friday's starting out just the way I like it. Eight o'clock in the morning here, but I usually record the first episode at ten, so a little early for me, but it's gonna be exciting, cause I love to wake up and hatch evil schemes. So, we got a whole hour to do just that, and I'm pretty excited to ... I just read a little bit about what you guys have going on, so maybe fill me in, and then we can see where we can go from there.
Henry: Yeah, sure. So, what I've ... There's two halves to the company. There's ... One half is called Infinity Telecommunications. We supply phone systems to businesses, sort of B to B businesses. So, these are the plastic phones that you see on your desk, and the box in the corner. Or now, lots of it's going to the cloud. Then, so that's one half of the business. And we're Australia's biggest independent Telco company. Then, we've also got Simply Headsets that's a headsets brand. It sells B to B-style headsets. I'm actually talking to you on one right now.
Dean: Well, it sounds crystal clear, like you're next door.
Henry: Fantastic. It's amazing where technology is these days. I think we're the opposite sides of the world, and yet you sound like you're in the office with my right now as well.
Dean: So great.
Henry: So, yeah. Simply Headsets sells wireless headsets, corded headsets, blue tooth headsets, mainly really aimed at the B to B space. Very ... We do have some consumer stuff, but it's very much that office headset that ... It's the headset for the large offices, but we also serve lots of home office-style set-ups as well, where just having a headset ... When you're on Skype, it's nice to be on a headset moving around and really expressive and -
Dean: Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm .
Henry: You know? When we're in the office, everyone's got the headset on, of the sales team. We've got the headset on, and the service team, we've got ... All the teams have really got headsets, and it's just very expressive to be on the phone and being a lot more ... Your whole body's involved in the conversation with a headset on, whereas if you're just on the telephone sometimes you can be stuck to that telephone sometimes.
Dean: Yes, yes. I love it. So, you guys ... Are you ... Is it a pretty big business that you guys have? How long have you been doing it?
Henry: Yeah, so I think today we're really focused on Simply Headsets just because -
Henry: It's an e-comm store, so it's only online.
Henry: Our head office is here in Melbourne, but we serve the whole of Australia. We're really focused on Simply Headsets just because ... I think it's a really interesting one, because at the end of the day, what we sell, we have the same access to the same headsets that every other retailer does in Australia.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: So, it's really looking to where ... We are the biggest supplier in the B to B space of headsets, but it's still ... Every day, we wake up and we want to better ourselves and do better things.
Dean: I love it.
Henry: And that is ... Simply Headsets has been around since 2005, so just as the Internet was even becoming a thing, the e-comm store was created and yeah. So, I guess somehow we've been going for 12 years right now.
Henry: For a business, we're doing pretty good, we think.
Dean: That's so great. Well, good for you. So, what's your ... The systems, or how does it work in terms of marketing right now? Where you guys do, where are you the strongest? Even if we break it down to before-unit, during-unit, after-unit, where would you see the strengths and the opportunities.
Henry: Yeah, so we're kind of lucky we've been around since the Internet was invented almost.
Henry: We've been around from those early days of the Internet starting to become mainstream, and so For Simply Headsets, a lot of our stuff is internet-based. We're at the top of many, many Google searches.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: So, an awful lot of our traffic, and so our sales, come via organic leads, organic people who went to Google on a Friday and just said, "I need a new headset for the office, because I wanna have a bit more freedom." They just go to Google, they type something in, and they appear on our website.
Henry: We also do ... So, organics are a big share of our traffic. We also do lots of ad words as well. We spend big on ad words, just because the space is so competitive that we might be the first in a search result, but with the way that ad words are, we of- You know? That -
Dean: That's gonna put you at number four or five, yeah.
Henry: Yeah, and in some cases, even six or seven. It's just incredible how far down the page you can become, even if you're first. So, we spend a significant amount. We spend a really competitive amount on ad words. And again, that brings us lots of traffic as well.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: And where ... I guess ... We don't actually ... We think we could actually reduce the ad words in a way though, because it almost feels like, with ad words, you spend money because you think you have to. And I guess we're in that sort of odd situation at the moment where we're looking at our numbers and just thinking, "Is ad words really worth it?"
Henry: But you're also scared that if you take away ad words, we might be first on the search engines, but we'll be said number four, five, six on the actual page itself.
Henry: So, you know? Sometimes we'll -
Dean: How do you measure whether you're being successful with ad words right now? How do you ... When people are buying headsets from you, are they buying in bulk, or are they buying one-off? How are you ... Is somebody buying for the whole office, or individuals?
Henry: So, a lot of our transactions are for multi-headset orders.
Henry: Probably roughly 20 percent of our transactions ... Not necessarily revenue, but certainly transactions-wise, are certainly government organizations, education, so 20 percent are that size. And then, we have many famous customers, famous big business that'll order ten at a time or something. They'll order for the whole of that division, or they'll order for the whole of ... You know? Some new offices are opening in Sydney, or Brisbane, or Perth, or something.
Henry: So, I'd say a lot of our orders are multi-orders, but it's almost ... It's those small orders ... We get an awful lot of home office orders as well.
Dean: Okay. And so, how do you measure the success of the ad words in terms of the conversions? Do you have a ... Do you calculate your cost-per-transaction from ad words, or ... How do you measure the success of that?
Henry: So, yeah. Pretty much every ad set, we break it down into a cost-per-transaction.
Henry: What can make it more interesting as well is that probably 50 percent of our sales come over the phone. So, people that have hit our website are then ... Because the headset space isn't actually that simple, you can't ... Depending on your set-up, you can't just buy headsets. If you've got a certain phone system, you need this adaptor and that adaptor, and -
Henry: You need some kind of lifter for your phone. It's not an easy buying process actually sometimes. I mean the headset that I'm talking to you on right now, easy. It just connects to my mobile phone. But for the headsets that are plugged into phone systems, they can get complicated. So, we actually get lots of people phoning us, and we've got a really great team that will help them out and figure out exactly what headset they should be buying in the first place.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: So, when it comes down to ad words, a lot of ... We just ... To a degree, my background's very analytics and tracking and things, -
Henry: But because it's quite a complicated business and we've got so many ad sets, I'm scared to sometimes say, we very much rely on the data that ad words gives us, and the tracking info that ad words gives us, combined with some sanity checks on analytics and stuff. But you know?
Henry: Kind of ... I wish I didn't trust it sometimes, cause you can never quite be sure. But we are quite reliant on what ad words says is the number that's true, to a degree.
Dean: Yeah, and that's ... What I'm wondering about is the ... I'm just trying to see whether you look at that individually, and are having the ad words justify itself, independent of all the other stuff. Like, is it that you're taking all of the revenue, and the fact that a lot of the sales are organic, is washing over the fact that maybe the ad words are more expensive than you should be paying for it. Do you know what I mean?
Henry: I think, yeah. I think ... So, even just weeks ... It's quite funny jumping on the phone with you now, cause this has been ... The last couple of weeks has really been this conversation of, "Yes, we see revenue overall, and sure, that covers ad words. And that's fine, and that's great."
Henry: But we're starting to really feel that ad words isn't driving the sales, isn't paying for itself as much as we think it could be in some areas, or should be to cover those costs.
Dean: Right. That's what I was wondering, is when you're just ... So, you're looking at the overall online sales, and the fact that a good portion of them are coming from organic is covering the fact that maybe the ad words, if you were just in isolation to look at it, might not be supporting itself or justifying itself.
Henry: Yeah, it's almost one of those numbers, because we're in a pretty good position overall, but it's almost one of those numbers that ... Because you're almost scared to admit the truth sometimes.
Dean: I know. That's why I'm trying to gently get to the bottom of it, you know? Well, do you use separate tracking numbers to know that when people call in, this is the source of that call?
Dean: Or are they all landing on the same website with the same phone number?
Henry: I will be very scared to admit, again, that we do have tracking numbers and we are a Telco company, so we almost have unlimited access to tracking numbers.
Henry: We do have them on the website, but it's ... I'd hate to say this, and it's obviously given me a job here, but it's not something that we check on a regular basis. It's very much a ... It's something, again, "Hey, we've got an hour. Let's go and do that process of tallying up all the numbers in the last six weeks or the last month."
Henry: And it's a funny one, because so much of what we do, and I think who I work with ... I work with Pete Williams, and both of us are very analytics and stuff, and yet, it's the one thing that we probably know we should do, but neither of us have put into an actual process, and put into our monthly processes.
Dean: I got it. So, that's ... And it's okay. I mean, because it's a big business, you're doing so many things right on different levels, and sometime you'll get to isolate those and look at it. But overall, it's the big thing, and I know that it's all inter-related, with people coming in there. It's hard to do the absolute direct attribution on things like that, because it's not necessarily an impulse purchase, that somebody's going online ... You know? They're not ordering a pizza. They're coming, and they're doing some research and figuring out, and then they gotta talk to somebody, and then they gotta talk to their boss, and then they gotta get all the ordering approvals, and all that. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. It's not the one-time visit and then buy, so I get it.
Henry: No. But it's also one of those that someone ... You know? This week, the task is to get new headsets for the office. And so, we'll notice if the ... You're exactly right. People will come and do their research, and they'll probably take two or three back to their boss.
Henry: Or they'll find two or three, and then it's something that ... The second they've got that approval, it might take a day or two, they'll then buy the headsets. So, it's something that they'll do the research, but it will actually happen quite quickly, we find, between that initial visit, and then the actual sale itself.
Dean: I got it. So, when you're ... How are you addressing that on your website, or in whatever you're doing there? Are you ... Do you have an opt-in opportunity for people? Like, is there something that you can, in a preliminary way, get somebody's name and email? Or is it all on the website.
Henry: It's all straight e-comm, there's not opt-ins, no nothing. It's something that I really ... Somehow; I think we need to work on.
Dean: Well, yeah. But maybe -
Henry: Especially -
Dean: Yeah, especially because of what you're talking about. Now, is there a ... What kind of volume of traffic do you get to the page from organic and paid? What kind of visitor volume do you get?
Henry: Overall to the website is ... I will bring up the numbers just in front of me. It ... So, let me make sure I've got the right numbers, because in a way, I'm quite proud of these numbers.
Henry: Something I'm quite proud to work on. Let's bring up some recent numbers. So, let's say in a month we will bring in ... Let's just get this final figure up. In a month, we'll be looking at bringing in something around 15,000 individual users.
Henry: And maybe something around 50 to 60,000 page views a month.
Dean: Okay. So, 15,000 visitors you end up having, and then, how many of those would ... Those are unique visitors?
Dean: Okay. And how many of those would buy? Let's just ... At the top and the bottom?
Henry: So, you're looking at around ... You're looking at roughly seven to eight percent of them will buy.
Dean: Wow, okay. So, that's really great. Good for you. I mean, that's pretty robust right there.
Henry: Yeah. It's -
Dean: Yeah, really. Good for you.
Henry: Yeah, and it's ... We know it's pretty good, but at the same time, we know every time that we can do better. So, it's kind of exciting to be in this position to a degree.
Dean: Yeah. Now, do you have anything ... So, when those seven percent or whatever buy, you're going to get all their contact information and stuff like that, but do you have ... Is there any other opt-in on your website? Is there anything that somebody can leave their name and contact information for?
Henry: The only thing that you could argue would be that is, we have our live chat. We have our live chat on our site, so -
Henry: So when we're offline ... So, after 5:30 pm and things, through to the next morning, that will actually be a, "Put your email address in, and put your name in, and we'll get back to you in the morning," kind of set-up.
Dean: Okay. Yeah.
Henry: But there's no classic opt-in or such.
Dean: Yeah, okay. So, I wonder if there might be an opportunity to address the thing that is happening ... Like, we look at how the sales cycle happens. You mentioned that, especially in the B to B side or the office environment, that somebody ... They're at a meeting and they've decided, "We need to look into new headsets," and they'll say, "Look into headsets, and bring us back some of what the options are." And they go off and do the research and then they present their findings to a decision-maker, who says, "Okay, let's go with these ones," and then, they come back and order. That's probably what's happening, right? The way you described it?
Henry: Yep, yep.
Dean: Okay. So, what if we made his job ... Help along with that, that if there was even a catalog, or a pricing guide, or a feature guide, or a ... What would be the right word of how to choose the right headset, or feature comparisons, or headset-planning guide that would have the process that somebody would go through to decide what they need? Almost like a guided consultation in a way, you know?
Henry: Yeah. Yeah, because on the website at the moment, we do have a headset wizard -
Henry: That is a three-part process to help narrow down the options, but I guess where that wizard ... We could definitely improve it. It will just lead you to one product at the end. It says, "Based on your answers, this is the product."
Henry: But I think what you're saying is right, that when people are doing the research, they actually want a couple of products to compare at the end of it. They don't want, "Here's your only product," to a degree.
Dean: Yeah, right.
Henry: I'm really seeing where you're going, yeah. I'm liking -
Dean: Yeah. Like, what we wanna do is that they're ... Somebody ... It's probably naïve to think that somebody, in the research phase of headsets, is going to find your site, only your site, get all their information just from your site, and make a decision on that. There's probably ... They're going to go and research the top two, or three, or more sites and do some comparison so that they can present their findings to the person who's making the decision. Right? Or that they're gonna do same thing if they're making the decision ultimately.
Dean: Does that seem to make sense? Yeah?
Henry: Huge amounts of sense. Huge, huge amounts of sense.
Dean: Okay. So, I wonder if there's a way that we could get 30 or 40 percent of the people to come ... Or let's even say 20 percent of the people to download this headset pricing guide, or comparison guide, or something that ... In spending the time to name this the right thing, it would be helpful to ... We could spend a whole hour just creating the word pallet that would make the words for what we title and use to describe this item that we're offering front and center, maybe even as an interstitial or something that floats over the page, to get somebody, as a first step, to download. Leave just their name and their email to get that. And then, it removes and they can continue shopping, but now we've got a way to reach out to them as well. You know?
Henry: Yeah. Yeah.
Dean: Build a list of prospects that way. That way you can then start the dialogue with somebody, and have somebody reach out in a conversational way to help, and maybe have ... Once they download that catalog, or the pricing guide, or the PDF way to decide what is the right headset for your needs, and they go through that process, then of course, we offer them the next steps, which we could put in the super signature on the emails that we've sent to them. So, you've got ... Here's your PDF, here's the thing that's got all the ... You know? To go through the process, here's a video to help, or whatever. And then, whenever you're ready, here are three ways we can help you. Try our headset wizard that'll walk you through the process and make a recommendation for you. You can talk to a specialist. Call this phone number, and we'll walk through what all of your needs are, and they'll help you by answering any questions. Or you can order online whenever you're ready. You know? If you just give people options and clear next steps.
Henry: Yeah. Yep, and I think the video idea is a very powerful one as well, because I think ... We don't have many videos on our site, but the few that we do get quite a significant amount of engagement. Again, just because a headset, to most people, is quite an unknown thing.
Henry: You kind of wanna buy a headset in the business space, and hopefully not buy another one for five years.
Henry: So, yeah.
Dean: And maybe that's your thing. Maybe you ... Maybe your ... Do you sell all kinds of different headsets?
Henry: Yeah, so -
Dean: Like, you're not selling ... Do you make your own, or are you a retailer of other brands?
Henry: We're a retailer of other brands, so -
Henry: We've got Sennheiser, Jabras, Plantronics. They're our main three brands, the main three brands here in Australia. I know there's more back with you in the States and things, but they're the big three. We don't have a preference between all three of them.
Henry: Australia huge part of what we do is, we'd much rather give the right advice to people and make sure they've got the right headset for them more than ... You know? We don't have a preference between the three.
Dean: Yeah. Okay. And are there items that might make one headset a better choice than another? What criteria are people using to decide?
Henry: Interesting, So, the first thing that can throw people off, and was a huge thing for me when I joined as well was, the single-ear headset versus the two-ear headset.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: And it can sound silly, but when you're in an office environment, you don't necessarily wanna cover up all your ears, because you're working together. So for some people, in their environment, having a single-eared headset can be the right way to go versus the more classic two ears that we see walking around the streets now. Everyone's got the over-ear headphone-style set-up. So, there's also two-ear-style headsets as well, but in an office environment, they're not always the best thing to be having on your head.
Dean: I got it. Okay. What other kinds of criteria ... I'm trying to see what would be ... This will give you a clue as to what the questions that people are researching. What's the ... Aside from price and the style of it, I guess, what other things are they comparing or looking through? How many different variables are there? How many different headset options are there, by the way?
Henry: I know, overall, how many products we've got. I'd say, in terms of pure headsets, you're probably looking at about 250 options within our -
Dean: Wow, that's amazing.
Henry: Within our store. So, yeah. There really are that many, and then when you take accessories into account, the number keeps going up and up.
Henry: Yeah. So, I think the huge question we get asked a lot is ... You've got wireless. Do you want to be sat chained to your desk? Do you want to have to plug something in, or do you want wireless? Do you wanna be able to walk around the office, but still be connected to your phone?
Henry: And I think that's probably the biggest question that people want to understand, and they want a preference. And it's ... Yeah. It's the corded versus wireless.
Dean: Okay. So, I think there's lots of opportunity to create a really helpful guide, and I think the specifics of that are gonna be ... Really, what would be the helpful thing that would help people guide their decision? Cause you're not gonna be able to feature 250 things there, but you're gonna be able to talk about the criteria, and help people think through that, you know?
Dean: And that would just be an interesting thing just to test. Like, if you're getting that ... If you're getting 500 visitors a day, basically. Right?
Henry: Pretty much.
Dean: Yeah. When you look at that, it would be interesting for a couple of days, to present that as an option and see how many people out of a thousand would ask for that. You know? And then, just see is it gonna be a useful and helpful thing to now be able to reach out to people through some automated conversational engagement? Like, if you were to use this ability, that somebody downloads the guide, you send them the guide and then have "Here's the next three steps," kind of thing. Either try the wizard, or talk to somebody, or order online, or maybe there's another option that I haven't thought of yet, but you clearly give people those options, and then the next morning to reach out and see if they're willing to engage in a dialogue, maybe just a nine-word email type of engagement. Are you looking for headsets for yourself, or for an office? Or for an office, or for yourself? Or are you looking for wired or wireless headsets? Or ... You know? Just something that would be engaging, just to see. Are these people willing to engage in a dialogue? That's the first thing that we look for in five-star prospects, you know?
Henry: Yeah. And yeah.
Dean: Do you have a sales team that would be ... DO you have a sales team that would be able to engage with people in that way?
Henry: Yeah, I think our sales team are amazing, to be honest.
Henry: Yeah. So, I think that would be a very, very interesting way ... And I think the sales team would also love to have those conversations as well.
Henry: Because they love what they do, and I think that's the conversation that they all love having, is helping people find the right solution.
Henry: So, yeah. I think -
Dean: But they get to have those conversations.
Henry: I think our sales team would be interested.
Dean: Yeah, they get to have those conversations, only with the people who reach out to them. That's the thing. Like, you look at ... As great as your conversion rate is, still 93 out of 100 people are leaving anonymously, right? Cause the only time you get to identify somebody is when they buy. You don't have a way of knowing who people are. So, you're whole ... The great news is your email list, or your contact list, your customer list are all buyers, right? I mean, that's the good thing about that.
Dean: Well, I think that might be a good thing to test, to see what can happen. You know? Do you track how many visits? Like, what the ... From first visit to when they buy, how long it's been? Do you ... Or are you able to get that attribution?
Henry: I'm pretty sure we can get that data up. It would be...
Dean: Because I'm assuming you're pixeling everybody and you're tracking everything, right? So, -
Henry: Yeah, yeah.
Dean: Yeah, but it'd be interesting to know what the actual ... They come on Monday and they buy on Friday, or they come on Monday and they buy next Wednesday, or whether ... You know? Is it on the day? Is it in two or three days, or a week, or a month? How long is it from first visit to purchase? You know?
Henry: So, roughly pointing out the data, it's generally ... Just looking at it right in front of me, most of it's on day one. It's on the first time they hit the site.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: But there's definitely some significant data in there as well. So, very much following the pattern that we talked about, there's a lot of comebacks ... Get the approval and come back the next morning and come and get everything. Yeah.
Dean: Yeah. Okay. So, I think that might be a really interesting thing to just try and see if it makes sense. Cause if you can get 20 percent plus of those people to opt-in for the guide, I definitely think ... Well, we know that the people who buy would be a subset of that bigger group of people who would find that helpful, you know? And maybe -
Henry: Yeah, I think so.
Dean: Yeah, it may make a difference. Like, right now the number ... Cause I always take a metric-based approach to everything, right? So, on a macro, you're looking that you're basically selling seven out of a hundred visitors, which is fantastic. And to see if you can move the needle on that number, by having a chance to reach out to some of the others, you know?
Henry: And I think it would be very interesting to see the percentage of the people that opt in who then become customers, because -
Henry: To me ... Because I don't know if news has reached the States, but Amazon has not been in Australia at all until ... Well, Amazon is just about to launch here. That, again, completely changes the e-commerce game. It completely changes where -
Dean: Oh, I didn't realize they weren't in Australia at all.
Henry: No, so this is a really interesting time for us. It's a really interesting time for e-commerce across Australia, as Amazon is going to be launching here in the next couple of weeks. When exactly that date is, is kind of a moving target.
Dean: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .
Henry: I think ... But Amazon's not currently here, so ... But one thing Amazon doesn't do is that it doesn't educate customers before.
Dean: Right, you're gonna have to really ... This is probably perfectly timely for you, because otherwise what people are gonna do, just like in the States, they're gonna know that what you're selling is a commodity because you're selling somebody else's product. And they're gonna get that model, go to Amazon, and see it for less money. And they can get it tomorrow with one click. That's ... That could be problematic, you know? So, I think it's gonna be even more important to engage with the people that are actually coming to your site, you know?
Henry: Yeah. Completely. I think -
Dean: And then, also to ring-fence the customers that you have. How many customers do you have right now that are in your after-unit, that are ... If you could take that idea of you're the incumbent provider of headsets to this company ... You're their headset alliance, what does the after-unit of your business look like?
Henry: So, we've had over 40,000 customers through the time we've been around. That's an amazing position to be in.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: So, there's always been just a very simple, five-step email follow-up. It's ... The first couple of emails are very much focused on, "How is your headset going? How's it working out for you?"
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: And it's always amazing that we get replies to those emails every day, just saying, "Sometimes it's not great, and that's the way it is." But it's cool, because we've managed to help them.
Henry: Then, the next couple of emails are ... They sort of talk about what's happening in the Telco space in general, because there's quite a big change here in our Internet. Our Internet ... You'll be amazed to hear that Australia doesn't have the fastest Internet. I know you come down here a couple of times.
Henry: And I'm sure when you've jumped on the Internet, you've sort of gone, "Why doesn't it work?"
Dean: Ah, that's funny.
Henry: So, the government's rolling out a brand-new Internet system across the entire country at the moment, to actually bring us up to higher levels of Internet. So, although it's not headset-related, the next couple of emails start going in that direction, because we have the Infinity side of the company that's more the Telco side that deals with telephones and Internet and that side of things.
Henry: So, we try and do a bit of cross-promotion, but after then, we've always really struggled. We've tried the newsletters, we've tried various blog, sort of a port ... I'd say at the moment, versus some of the other stuff we do, our Simply Headsets blog isn't great.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: But yeah. Essentially, we have those five emails, and after then, we really do struggle to then get back in contact with our buyers, and actually get them to take action on another purchase.
Dean: Mm-hmm . How often do people purchase? Do you measure the contribution of your after-unit to revenue? Like, how much of your business is repeat and referral business? Do you -
Henry: So, -
Dean: Yeah. I guess what I'm asking is, do you treat your after-unit like a separate division of the business, or monitor it that way?
Henry: Not in that way? We monitor ... Does the same company re-order from us?
Dean: Okay, so you at least acknowledge ... You at least can ... If we were to say, "Of 100 percent of the revenue in 2017 ... This year, of 100 percent of the revenue, what percent of that would be from clients that are already customers versus new customers, which would be your before-unit?"
Henry: I'd say ... If we're talking ... Keep it, it's the same ordering. There's probably different within that company, -
Henry: I'm gonna say it's 50 to 60 percent is, effectively, returning people from within the company.
Dean: Love it. Okay. That's good, right? So, know that now that you've got that level of ... That much of your business is because you are now the supplier of headsets to that company, right? You're the incumbent. So, there's definitely some value in having a more-formalized way of nurturing that relationship, you know? Because if it's just those five follow-up emails and the occasional things, you know? Even if you had a catalog, or something that would be sort of the new releases, or the new ... Keep everybody excited about what's the new developments in headset technology, or new things that are coming in there as opportunities for them, you know? That might be an interesting way. But I think there's definitely some ... Because you've got a solid base on it. I mean, listen. You guys are doing well across the board, right? I mean, a seven percent conversion of traffic to sales, you've got all that organic footprint that you have ... So, a lot of these things you're winning no matter what, but there's ... When we start chipping into the actual metrics of it, there's some opportunities there. You know?
Henry: Yeah. It's amazing what 45 minutes can do, isn't it?
Dean: But I think that your brand, Simply Headsets, is a great brand. Do you do anything outside of that to ... You know? I think about ... What are people using these headsets for? I think if you were to maybe think about beyond what the headset itself, as a commodity is, and the purpose of what people are doing with it ... Primarily in B to B, it's either gonna be that they're in customer service, or they're in sales, would be probably the two primary people who are using headsets, right?
Henry: Yep. Completely.
Dean: Is there another that I'm ... You know? If you say customer service or support, count that as the same thing, or even if you parse it out you've got customer service, you've got tech support, you've got sales. Those would be probably 80 percent of it, right?
Henry: Yep, and then you've also got two other markets depending what kind of business you have. You've generally got the reception desks, who are fielding lots of calls, and then you've also got the boss, who's always on Skype calls or -
Dean: Yeah, you've got the conference rooms, and the ... Yeah, yeah.
Henry: Yeah, so that's another huge, huge area. Yep.
Dean: That's another huge area? Is that what you said? Yeah.
Henry: Yes, and they're ... When the boss is buying the headset, the boss wants a really good headset as well.
Dean: Yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah, the executive headset, right? I mean, the emperor. Yeah.
Henry: Yep. So, -
Dean: So, it's pretty interesting. There may be ... There's ... Have you ever seen any of the ... And these are out-of-the-box type of things, maybe not directly related, but have you seen these customer service memes that go around? There's actually a website ... There's actually a pretty good-sized Facebook page of all customer service memes. You know you're kind of gathering the right audience, just looking for some alternative way if getting some traffic or attention, you know?
Henry: Yeah. I didn't, but there's nothing like a good meme to bring a smile to your face, so I would -
Dean: Right! Exactly!
Henry: I would certainly.
Dean: And that's the kind of thing, right? They're doing that, and then, it's Simply Headsets is behind that, kind of thing. It's a fun ... You know? It's like you're thinking about ... There's a lot of talk right now about the shift of all companies being media companies, that that's really the opportunity that we have right now. You know? And when you look at ... What are the ways that you can get the attention of the people who are wearing headsets, even when they're not overtly looking for it right now? Right? So that when they do, that you're the choice for it. And I don't know whether ... Is there some type of ... Who's doing ... On the sales side, when you look at it, who's providing the training for people that are going to be using these headsets? Like, if you really look at it, you're creating the tool, but who's teaching what to do, the best telephone sales skills?
Henry: Yeah, that's -
Dean: And you're just starting to think about how you can be on people's minds when it's time to get a headset, you know?
Henry: Yeah, because it's ... You might blow this theory out the water, but we believe to a degree over the years for what we've seen is, you can't force someone to buy a headset, but when -
Dean: Right! That's it.
Henry: You can't create demand for a headset.
Henry: But when someone's ready to buy a headset, they're ready to buy a headset now.
Dean: Yeah, I got it.
Henry: You know? Within a day or two of the time, so yeah. I'm starting to see that there's a lot more that we could be doing as they ... Six months, a year in advance to ... Where do you go for headsets? You go to Simply Headsets, because they're Simply Headsets. Where else do you go?
Dean: Yeah. No, exactly! That's it. And that's where, I think, you have an advantage there. You've got a great name, you've got a great ... You must have a great experience when people go, because you've got it dialed in, where seven percent of the people who come are buying. That's a pretty dialed-in process right there.
Dean: Yeah, so having more of that is, I think, an opportunity for you.
Henry: A huge opportunity, a huge, huge opportunity.
Dean: Yeah. And it's really interesting to think about what could happen if you were to really look at what the outcome could be if you had somebody who's thinking about your after-unit as an independent thing. Right? Somebody who's whole thing is to think about how to nurture relationships with those people, and how to be there and maybe even encourage new purchases, or keeping on top of that. It'd be interesting to see. How frequently do people buy headsets? What's the typical life cycle?
Henry: Generally, it depends ... Lots of it will always depend on how much did you spend on your headset in the first place -
Henry: As to ... The lower end of the market is always gonna be the slightly less-durable ones sometimes and that's kind of what ... You get what you pay for in pretty much any industry. But generally, you're looking ... Even from one of those headsets, you'd still look at two to three years you want to really get wear out of it, but two to three years. Then, for some of the more premium headsets, we would expect to see five years of -
Henry: There's no reason you shouldn't still be using it after five years.
Dean: Yeah, so -
Henry: One area that we've recently started to think about is, because headsets can last for a long time ... Lots of them are metal and good quality plastic. They're gonna last for a long time. Is the replacement ear pads, the replacement small bits within a headset, and that's something that we've started to try and think about. How can ... Be there at the point -
Dean: Well, that's what I mean about paying attention. That's what I mean about looking at the after-unit is looking at it, reporting that this person bought a headset with a two-year expectancy, and that they're going to need new ear pads or new things at this level ... Is there anything within your CRM that is triggering an outreach to the people at just that time to do some market-making within your existing clients? It's really ... It's that much of an opportunity that it's worth having somebody as an after-unit director, you know?
Henry: Yeah, yeah.
Dean: Somebody who's driving just the relationship with existing customers.
Henry: Yeah, I think that's becoming more and more apparent.
Dean: Well, it certainly is your ... I mean, especially now, with Amazon coming in there, it's gonna be even more important that you really put a fence around the people that are already in your field, and reassure there's no reason to go anywhere else, you know?
Henry: Yeah. I think ... And yeah, as you said, I think the time now, with Amazon coming in is ... Especially because lots of our customers are repeat is that they are gonna be faced with an option, and long as we ... You know? Amazon doesn’t sit there and call people.
Henry: We can.
Dean: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Henry: Yeah. So ... Yeah, I think that's definitely something, sat here right now that we can have a play with over the weekend and get something in action on Monday, because -
Henry: We're pretty good with our CRM in terms of who's done what at what point. It's just -
Henry: I guess -
Dean: It would be interesting to really see if you could anticipate who's going to do what and when.
Dean: You know? Like, that's really ... Rather than historically, is to trigger it. You know? That maybe in three or four months before you would expect that their pads are gonna be starting to wear down, that you start ... That maybe you send them a postcard or you send an email that is specifically about the replacement pads. Or even if it was a nine-word email, like a personal type of email to them and saying, "Hey Henry, how are your ear pads on your headset doing?"
Dean: Just to engage like that ... Like, somebody really checking in on them.
Henry: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's the kind of thing where probably they haven't noticed, and lots of people probably wouldn't notice.
Henry: And then, it suddenly becomes something that they would notice at that point as well.
Dean: Yeah, right.
Henry: And I guess, for them, it's sort of the, "How did you know? You hit me at exactly the right time." Yeah.
Henry: That would be very interesting. Very, very interesting.
Dean: Yeah, yeah. That kind of thing. There's ... Little things like that could make this amazing difference, you know? There's ... The other asset that you have are people who are ... You've got the inside track to people who are either sales directors, or customer service directors, or whatever the things are. Are there other people who are trying to ... Are there people who provide ... Who provides the best sales training in Australia? You know, that you could partner with to provide some content, you know?
Henry: Yes. Interesting, because ... I think that would be a very interesting one, especially because of the way Australia is set up.
Dean: Mm-hmm .
Henry: You can probably tell that I was born in the UK, so I can kind of see this from outside eyes to a degree as well, is that because Australia has five major cities, I love business and I love doing things here, because you only have to make alliances and connect in five major cities and you've got almost the whole population in those five places.
Dean: Yeah. Right.
Henry: So, yeah. I think ... And you know? Every city has a couple of major training places, and that's it, because we're not that big of a country.
Henry: You know?
Dean: Right, right! And you imagine, if you're there, everywhere, when ... Cause those people are trying to reach those people, you know? I mean, the whole equipment ... Who's selling the chairs to them, you know? There's somebody ... There's probably another website called Simply Chairs!
Henry: Or if there isn't, we should start one!
Dean: Well, exactly. But I'm just saying that that's the kind of thing that they're sitting there, and not looking at the ... Nobody looks at the whole eco-system of it, and nobody appoints themselves to the mayor of that category, you know?
Henry: Yeah, that's -
Dean: So, you could. You know?
Henry: I'm going to. I am.
Dean: Your coronation ceremony!
Henry: There's no "could" about this one. I am. I'm going to.
Dean: I'm talking to the mayor, that's right.
Henry: And I guess there's also the major office suppliers as well. That's where it all starts is ... Those large-scale offices is where it all starts, so I'm gonna add that to my list of things to think about.
Dean: Well you imagine about ... Even the start-ups, if you think about it at the level ... Not necessarily the start-ups, but the places that are moving into new office space that ... You really start to think about that whole environment, that whole eco-system, then you start to see where the opportunities are. And you guys got nothing but opportunity, and the good news is you got a bus that's moving, and profitable, and converting already. So, all these things are now enhancements, you know? Just nothing but opportunity for you.
Henry: Yeah. That's the way to wake up every day.
Dean: Absolutely. So, what's your takeaway here today? That went kind of quick.
Henry: It went -
Dean: What's your insight takeaway for what we talked about?
Henry: For chatting to someone at now 1:00 in the morning, that went extremely quickly. I think one huge thing is just that initial opt-in and helping people with those decisions, because when people get on the phone to us, 90 percent of what they're asking us is they don't know. But to get some opt-in up-front, and especially for those people that don't want to jump on the phone. As much as so much of the population is still happy to jump on the phone, someone my age ... I'm 30. I'm on this tipping-block between almost two different societies, where everyone who's younger than me ... The last thing you ever wanna do is jump on the phone. So, -
Henry: I think ... And everyone my age is now becoming middle aged. So, I think that that's a huge one. We have the wizard on the site, but I think there's a stage even before the wizard that could be very helpful, so that's a huge takeaway for me. I think just the fact that I'm now the mayor of the office world, that's something on the follow-up, the wider partnership side, that's the huge thing. So, the third thing ... There's nothing like something in three's. Is the after-unit. It's being a lot more predictive on the follow-up because ... I think it's with Amazon ... We're all talking about it here. It's the headline news every day at the moment. Amazon are playing a great media game, and it's just being there at the right time for our customers, because we've been with them for 12 years, and I think we do a good enough a job that they shouldn't ... Some people will go to Amazon, but I think we do a good enough job, we look after people enough during the sales process that they should keep wanting to come back to us if we keep on our game.
Dean: Yeah. I love it. Well, that was great. I loved having ... That's a different business. That's what I love about doing this More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast, is the variety. There's never a shortage of different types of businesses, but the profit activators apply to every one of them, so I had fun. It was really, really good.
Henry: I had fun too. Thank you very much, Dean. Thank you for waking up, and thank you for hatching some evil schemes this early in the morning.
Dean: Awesome, thanks. I'll talk to you soon.
Henry: Have a great day!
Dean: And there we have it. Another great, exciting conversation. And it was fun. It's always fun when we crown a new mayor, and so we've seen and witnessed the crowning of Henry Reith to the position of the mayor of his eco-system, and there's nobody stopping him. We just took the position. And that's the kind of thing that's fun about any business, you can self-appoint yourself to ... That sounds a tongue-twister. You can self-appoint yourself. So, there's maybe opportunity for you to think about that. What's the category that is available for you, and how can you really align with the other people who are also trying to reach that eco-system, or who have people? We've identified everybody wearing a headset is sitting in a chair, and there's probably a website called Simply Chairs. So, even just aligning with those people, and sharing information, and sharing introductions, that could be a great business development opportunity, so it's always nice to look for those things. But I really enjoyed it. I think they're gonna ... I'm anxious to see how it all unfolds for Henry and the team. So, if you'd like to continue the conversation here, and maybe be a guest on this show, we could hatch some evil schemes for you, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com and download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book. And if you'd like to be a guest, just click on the Be A Guest link and tell me a little bit about your business, and then I would love to hatch some evil schemes with you. If you'd like to see where the big opportunity is in your business right now, go to profitactivatorscore.com and try our Profit Activator Scorecard. It walks you through and assessment for the eight profit activators to see where you stand right now, and where you may have the biggest opportunity. So, you can do that. Profitactivatorscore.com. Okay, that's it for this week, and we will talk to you next time. Bye-bye.