Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we have a real treat. We're going to be talking with Shaqir Hussyin from London, and Shaqir has a really great business helping people build online businesses.
I first met him at a Breakthrough Blueprint event I did in London, maybe four years ago now, and we had a really great conversation about who he wants to be a hero to.
This is a conversation I've been having with Dan Sullivan recently, and the subject of his new book also called Who Do You Want To Be a Hero To?
It's one of the most profound books I've ever read, and we're going to have a lot of discussions about it on future episodes here.
In the meantime, Shaqir's situation is a really good jumping-off point to talk about it.
I think you're going to enjoy this episode.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 154
Dean: Hello. Shaqir Hussein.
Shaqir: Dean Jackson. How are you?
Dean: I'm so good. How are you?
Shaqir: It's been many years now since we last connected.
Dean: I know, but I feel just as enthusiastic about Shaqir as I did then.
Shaqir: How are you? How's things?
Dean: I'm good. I keep thinking about you every time I come to London. How much fun we had.
Shaqir: Oh nice. Have you been back to London again?
Dean: Yes, I come every June. You've been threatening to come back. Yeah, so-
Shaqir: I've been in and out of the country. I just came back from Dubai, and then I am heading back out to Saudi Arabia for a whole month.
Dean: Wow, look at you, very nice! Well, I was very excited to see your name on my calender today for More Cheese, Less Whiskers. I'm excited to hatch some evil schemes with you. So what are you up to now? I want to hear, you know, catch me up, and I want to hear about what you want to talk about today.
Shaqir: Sounds good. So I basically spend a lot of money, and I didn't take my own advice of researching my own target market. And we created whole sorts of, lots of visual products and services. And my main focus is on wealthacademy.com. There's two things going on. I had this thing going on so I can simplify it, and now we're down to two things, which is wealthacademy.com.
So started building out, just like a Udemy. You know what Udemy is? You know what those things are?
Dean: I do.
Shaqir: So I wanted to create something for digital marketers all in one place. And I had spent about good three years, I had a whole team go out develop courses, certifications, all of those things. And now I'm at a point where I'm like, this is too much. There's just too many courses. There's like 12, 15 courses. There's just all these things that we've gone way too deep into creation mode, versus marketing and selling mode.
Dean: Right. And solution mode, really. I mean that's really the thing I look at more than selling mode is solution mode. That when you think about Dan Sullivan just came out with a great new book this quarter called Who Do You Want To Be A Hero To. And that question for me has really clarified and adds something to the idea of selecting a single target market, which is our profit activator number one. Select a single target market. And you know, we then bookend that with thinking what would be a dream come true for that audience. You know? And what are your capabilities? So if I look at it, there's something about the idea of thinking who do you want to be a hero to.
Because any kind of marketing, any kind of sales or solutions or anything like that always is an exchange between two people for a good or a service or a product that's going to provide some beneficial outcome to the end user in exchange for money or other consideration, right? That's the foundation of commerce. When you strip away all of the billions of variations of that. Everything is really comes down to that. You've got something that somebody finds useful or desirable enough to exchange money or something to get it. Right?
And so knowing before you do the marketing, we have to establish what is the actual market for this, you know? So if I ask you that question, who do you want to be a hero to, that's a different energy than who's your target audience, right?
Shaqir: Yeah. That is.
Dean: And so, who do you want to be a hero to?
Shaqir: I want to be a hero to the person who is a business owner or they're in corporate, and they want to come online and start the business.
Dean: Okay. Starting an online business.
Shaqir: Starting on an online business. They're 40 to 60 years old. They have cash that they can spend. $5,000, $10,000, $20,000 to come to an event, a workshop, invest in a mastermind. That's who my target market is.
Dean: Yeah, perfect. So almost like taking, you're treating it like any other, almost like selling a franchise or another business. You're not looking at people who are looking to bootstrap with no money how to turn nothing into something. You're talking about people who have some capital, to invest in a business that is online.
Shaqir: Yes.
Dean: Okay. So, and that's great. Now, when I look at this, we look at the question of what would be a dream come true to that person. And when you look at-
Shaqir: Dream comes, yeah. You were saying?
Dean: I'm just saying. We want to look at, knowing everything that you know, and all the resources that you have, and all the experience that you have. Do you know who Jordan Peterson is?
Shaqir: Yes.
Dean: So one of Jordan Peterson's great rules for living is, and he says it about yourself. But he says, treat yourself like you're someone you're responsible to help. And that collection of words, when you say that, and you think about that. If you're detaching from yourself and treating yourself like you're someone you're responsible for helping, it activates the sort of compassion, patience. You know, let's just give them a hand and boost them along here kind of emotional package that we all have inside of us, right?
If you take this, I'm kind of overlaying that on this idea of who do you want to be a hero to, that if I ask you, knowing everything you know now, and taking away, stripping away all of the current goggles of what you have for offer right now, and what you charge for it. Whether it's an online course or a mastermind or whatever. Let's strip that out for a second and say if you're, who you want to be a hero to. Knowing all the things that you know right now, what would be the best thing if you could do for somebody if they would just get out of the way and let you do it? Or if you were somehow cast with being responsible for helping this person.
Shaqir: Okay, so. That was loaded.
Dean: It is. It is loaded. And that's the thing. It's like this kind of thinking, or this kind of examination or meditation on this is really the foundation that this will provide for the marketing, is phenomenal. I can't even state it enough. You know?
Shaqir: See, what happens was-
Dean: Yeah, what did you do?
Shaqir: Yeah, so carry on. Carry on. Say that again.
Dean: So what could you do for someone? Like, knowing everything you know now? You've got the outcome that you could create, you know? Because I always say to people, "What would you do if you only got paid if they get the result, you know?"
Shaqir: What could I do?
Dean: What's the result that you're 100% confident that you could create for someone.
Shaqir: The end result is giving them confidence that they can build and market their own digital course, business, on the internet. From beginning to end.
Dean: So confidence is different than a result, right? You can't cash confidence. That's not going to feed their family. That's not going to let them quit their job. That's not going to pay for their kids' college, right?
Shaqir: Yeah. So I will be able to help them get clients that will pay them, and that they can have their first via $10,000, $20,000 in a single month.
Dean: Yeah! Are you capable of that?
Shaqir: Yeah. 100%.
Dean: Of course! That's why I was asking, you know? So you know you can do it. If you were saying, like, listen. If I was saying to you, listen, you're only going to get paid if you get this result for people. What happens with this, what's very interesting about this is that if you are only focused on the outcome, the result that they're going to get, ultimately, which is their business is making money, right? That you may find that there's a quicker path to get there than bundling everything up in this what seems like what they're buying, which is this abundance of courses and opportunity, and all of the training and everything. So they're overwhelmed, and kind of think, well, it must all be in here. But they have to wade through that whole thing to get to a point where they can learn how to do something that they can apply that then hopefully is going to get the result. Right? And if your focus, if you're only going to get paid when they get the result. But you don't have to. It takes away all the fluff from it, right?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: If you're saying what's the surest fire way to get to, when you really strip it out, what do they really need? It gives you that kind of clarity. You burn away all the fluff, and all the fat that can masquerade as value. Right? Or as something that adds up, an offer. But the reality is if they just did this and this and this, that would get the result. And so if your focus is on that kind of clarity. That you know that what they need to do is this and this and this, and this is the best way to do it, then you kind of looked for how can I help them get out of their own way? And get that result so that I can get paid, along with them. Right?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: And this kind of thinking is not, I'm saying, using this, even if that's your offer that you're ultimately going to make, using this kind of thinking process is really the way that gets you clarity on what it is that really make the difference for you, yeah know? When you're really faced with that idea of, "I'm only going to get paid if they get the result".
What would you do? Like, let's walk through a scenario for someone.
Shaqir: So, what I would do would be, let me just think on this. Let me just think.
Dean: Yeah.
Shaqir: If it was someone coming in, so let's just say right now, we're selling courses and we've sold lots of these courses, thousands of students. But what they get is basically what you said, they have to wade through a lot of information.
If you told me, "Hey, go and get this person results", the first thing I would say is "Okay, then I'm going to spend time creating a product, doing design work, none of that nonsense. What we're going to do, is we're going to create an optimum selling system, and we're going to go after one customer. And that's it. We're going for a one target market, we're going to find what they're paying for and what the problems are, and we're going to create one solution, and then we're going to pick one advertising medium, maybe Instagram, and then we're going to go and message 100 people a day for the next 10 days to see what kind of responses we can get. And get them on a position on the phone, just to validate the market."
That's what I would say, that's just me stripping down a 6 week course into 6 minutes.
Dean: Absolutely! And that's awesome. So when you think about that, you know, there's something to that, Shaqir. When you said it with such clarity because you know that that's the truth, right? You know that if they really are going to get the thing, get the result, that that's what it really takes. That would be the thing you would do, you know? But that's a pretty simple course, right?
So, the fear is, well that doesn't sound like enough to charge whatever I can charge for this seemingly expansive library of collected wisdom, right? That they have access to all of this stuff, it feels like. We've got hundreds or thousands of courses and thousands of hours of training. As if that's what they're buying it, by the pound, you know?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: But the real value is the speed to get to the money coming in. Not the buying the most digital pounds of available training for the money, that they then have to wade through to hopefully find the one, and come to that conclusion that I need to pick one idea and one market and one method to reach them. Right?
So when you look at it, let's take that example and just unpack it a little bit. Your idea of the Instagram as the one thing. Because when you're talking about DMs and things like that, you're not talking about buying ads, you're talking about getting started with a very specific person, right?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah. And so that kind of thing, you know when you look at it, you could even do that for somebody right?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: And that's really like part of this exercise, part of this thinking process is what would be a dream come true, right? Which couples so nicely with whom do you want to be a hero to, because if you think about who you want to be a hero to, and then what would be a dream come true for them. So if we take the guy that you described, who's 40-60 years old who's in a corporate world or they've made the leap and they're going to invest in their own business and they want to get to the point where they can replace their 6-figure job with 6-figures online, that's a pretty good description of who you're looking for, right? Somebody-
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah-
Shaqir: How do you take a 6-figure job and get a 6-figure online income?
Dean: Yeah. That's the thing, I mean, they've got the safety and security of a job right now. But they may hate it. Or they may not like the idea that they've got to go to work every day, get on the tube and you know, fight all the people that get in to the city. All that stuff, no freedom, no sense of control over their destiny, you know? And there's so many reasons why somebody would want to do that, so the reality is that they've got their extra time that they're investing in this, right? In the evenings and the weekends. That that's the time that they're investing in getting something going online, right?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: And so, can you picture one of those people? Like, who's your best success story of somebody that you've been a hero to? Somebody that would say "I was in this situation and look what Shaqir was able to help me do"
Shaqir: There's a guy called Tony, he's 54 years old, he's got 2 kids, he's spent 300 grand on his kids private education, and he's been doing the same thing for 30 plus years. Financial planner. He meets people, meets them face to face, tries to close them one-on-one, he travels up and down the country driving to customers, and he never knew anything about digital marketing. So he meets me and we actually meet in the same hotel that you and I met in, how crazy is that!
Dean: Yeah, that's wild!
Shaqir: At the Guoman Tower of London, near there. We meet at that hotel in the lobby, I go in, lucky to be called marketing, just wearing normal clothes. He comes up wearing a 3-piece suit, one pen, fancy leather notebook and I'm thinking, "Wow. Is this what you do"? And so he's giving me some advice, finance stuff. And then he says, you know, you seem to be a very young man, and very successful. because I told him I needed some financial help. I said "hey, I'm making a hell of a lot of money. What do I do?" And so he's giving me advice, and at the end he says "What is it exactly that you do?" And I said "Well, I teach people how to start an online business, and leverage things like Facebook and webinars, and all of this stuff."
And he says "Well I'm interested in learning." He comes to one of my live events and he doesn't even stay for the whole 3 days, but he gets it. And he sees everyone a bunch of people traveling from all over the world, they had like maybe 60 or 80 people at that event. And he buys my most expensive program which is a $100,000 program.
Dean: That's great, wow.
Shaqir: And it was from a single conversation that I had with him because he said to me, and I said "look, I have all these coaching programs, you know, which is a couple thousand bucks, $5,000, $10,000, blah blah blah, but there's a program, which is 100k.” And before him, I had not sold any to anyone in the U.K.
I'd had a couple of Canadians, Americans, and people in Singapore, that had bought $50,000 programs. These are like a yearlong, two yearlong coaching programs, that's a whole different kind of thing. Like, I fly someone to their house. It's like really, really intense. But, he says, "yes" on the first day, and then he says to me, "Shaq, I won't be able to come for the next 2 days".
I'm like "Dude, it's a 3-day event" he goes "well I'll come in on the first day". So first day comes in, he buys my super expensive program, and then what happens is this really fascinating. You know, he comes and spends a 1-day VIP Shaq sessions with me, and during that day I am teaching about the power of doing webinars, and I'm telling him like you need to stop doing one-on-one presentation, because it's not scalable. And that's all he does, is just that, like he doesn't learn anything else, he doesn't do a hundred and one things, he doesn't do anything else except he creates a single presentation webinar, puts it on LinkedIn, the right people see it, and his phone starts ringing off the hook.
Dean: Yeah.
Shaqir: The thing goes viral, he gets featured on TV. Long story short, he goes from like 6-figures to 7-figures, his son doesn't go to university, his son now works with him, works from home, and he is the most joyous, pleasant, client to ever work with. And I remember when I was at Dan Sullivan's workshop, he made us do this exercise, I can't remember what it was called but it was something along the lines of like, who your best customer is, or something like that, or your best payday, or something along those lines.
Dean: Your largest check, is what he calls it.
Shaqir: Your largest check, that's what it was. Like, really dig deep into who is this customer, what kind of personality qualities do they have, all of these things. And I remember writing it down and I came up with Tony. Wow, Tony. And I don't know what it is with Tony but that 2-3 other Tonys as my clients. Actually I've got 2 other Tony’s that are from Canada, and they're both amazing clients of mine. Those I would say are my best clients.
Dean: Uh-huh. Perfect.
Shaqir: Went on a ramble there. That's who the client is. He's 54 years old, he's successful already, so he's not desperate, now if I say "Go spend 2 grand, 5 grand, 10 grand, to test out Facebook and YouTube, and Google advertising". They really know you have to do that, you know what I mean? So, that's my perfect client.
Dean: Yes. I love it, and that's the thing where, having that clarity, right? And that's kind of the thing where, that's you could say, I'm sure he would refer to you as his hero, if you thought about it like that, right? That you're a hero to him because you got him off that train of meeting people one-on-one and going all around the country, you created a freedom for him.
That's worth way more than the $100,000 he paid to you for it.
Shaqir: Yeah. I've seen it. The money that he's spent, I remember his son promoted one of my products, and I wired him like a $20,000 wire for a single day of promotion, and his son is like 19, 20 years old. So for sure, it's definitely work well for him.
Dean: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's awesome.
So when you think about this now, up on that level, there's living proof right there that he was able to make a decision quickly, right? Like, he was able to know that a webinar is the one thing, and let's just go all-in on this one thing. And that's kind of the idea that when you're looking at all these Tommys that you could be a hero to, if they could just get to that point.
Now not all of them are going to be at a point where they would spend $100,000 on one. After knowing you just for a short period of time. Now there's an interesting dynamic that, from what I understand of the story of how you met Tommy. Did you call him? You were trying to get advice from him about your financial situation, right? It wasn't that the first meeting was him seeking you out, you were seeking him out.
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah, okay so, and there's the thing that you know, when you look at the coming in that situation he hears a lot of good things that were happening there. First of all, you know, you're just a fun, happy, like enthusiastic guy. As soon as somebody lays eyes on you, you're going to smile, and you're going to feel like, I like this guy, right? And that you're relaxed mode, and you're disarming, and honest, and that whole thing coming across.
Like you're just telling him, "Look, I make a lot of money and I need some help with this". That, he's probably at a point where he's making maybe a healthy 6-figures, but to be faced with the reality of you. That guys like you exist, that's a whole different thing. Because you're in a different kind of realm than he would be, in terms of just the way, talking about even the difference in the way that you dress, you know?
I mean, you're a snappy dresser. But not like 3-piece suit because you're trying to impress somebody, dressing, you know?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: Yeah. You're wearing it because you want to kind of thing, and that's, there's something about that. So he had this context that whatever you're doing, if he was doing something like that, like when you were probably sharing with him your financial situation. How much money you make and that, he's probably thinking to himself, you know, "I'm twice this guy’s age and I don't make this amount of money he's making."
Shaqir: That's exactly what he said.
Dean: Yeah.
Shaqir: That's exactly what he said. yeah.
Dean: And so that was built in credibility, right? Like that's the thing. He had certainty that you're able to help him, because he had that evidence, right? Before he even sought you out is the thing. When you're starting with that, you were at that super credibility level with him. So not everybody is going to be like that, but, you know, you kind of half joke that it might be good for you to start meeting with financial advisors. For financial help, for you.
Shaqir: That's so funny, I was just thinking that, because they make money and, oh my gosh, it's so funny because I never, ever approached anyone else. Probably a million dollar idea.
Dean: I mean it's pretty funny, right? Have you seen the new Four Seasons, Shaqir, at Ten Trinity?
Shaqir: In Toronto?
Dean: No no, right at Tower Bridge.
Shaqir: No, I haven't, I didn't know there was one.
Dean: Oh, I just changed your life then.
Shaqir: Oh yeah yeah yeah, sorry sorry, no no no no, no no no, no, yes. That's my wife's favorite one. Oh yeah, Dean, I got married about two years ago.
Dean: Oh, look at you Congratulations.
Shaqir: Yeah that's the one that we go to, the Four Seasons in Trinity Square.
Dean: Yes. So that's my new home in London. That's the official headquarters for Dean, but that is, you know, you could just imagine you setting up all these meetings with financial advisors to get their financial advice. And, you know, having tea at the Four Seasons. Right? That kind of thing, where that starts, it's different thing, right? And Tommy, was looking at you, as a potential client. So there already, his guard is down because he wasn't on the defensive of expecting you to start to pitch him something, right?
He wasn't meeting with you for you to tell him what he needs to buy from you, you were talking about what do I do with all this money? And that to him, is like, "Oh wow, so that's more money than I make. And look at the way he's dressing. I really like, those shoes look way more comfortable than mine". Do you still wear those great loafers? I love those.
Shaqir: I do, I have a new pair.
Dean: My friend, Shaqir, has what I would call a very expensive loafer, fetish.
Shaqir: Yeah, you remember.
Dean: I do, but they're great, right? So, you know, that's great. But anyways, that's the kind of thing where, you started from that, you were coming from a place where the evidence is real. And if you unpack that, there's something there. Part of the thing that makes those things really work is taking people like that, you know, first of all, do you think that you could do that same thing if you took on 10 Tommys? How many of them do you think that you could create that same outcome for?
Shaqir: I am very, very confident. Like, all I'm introducing to them. Like I don't have to tell them "Oh do you know that you can make this much money", it's more like, "Hey listen, you already make 300 grand a year, but how would you like to make that in a month, without doing all of this other stuff that you're doing?"
Dean: Right. That's exactly right, that's what I'm talking about.
Shaqir: Okay so I am-
Dean: Yeah, but you think about that as you know, then documenting those things as case studies in a way where one of the things I do a lot of work with real estate agents, and we have a program called Getting Listings that helps realtors get listings for people who want to work with them to sell their house.
And I created a five-year case study that we've documented every step along the way for 5 years, and show the 12 times ROI on everything from the post cards to the postcards and the newsletters and all the thing that they're doing. To over a million dollars in commissions from that. And sum it all up, in an infographic, that is instructive, in that it shows exactly what happens, you know? Like, this is how much you spent on marketing and all the materials, and this is how much he's made on the whole thing. And it's really compelling evidence. But if you look at somebody like what would be the starting point for somebody like Tommy?
Shaqir: Tony, the selling point would be to show them the power of using webinars.
Dean: Yes, and you think that's the thing where, if you lined up ten Tommys, people who are already in a business where they're making a couple hundred thousand dollars, or a successful executive, doesn't really matter what they're doing right now. Or are you talking about that it would be a better thing if they're going to apply it to their own business? As opposed to somebody who's got a 6-figure job but they're going to replace their job with an online business but it's not the business that they're already in.
Shaqir: Yeah, I mean even if they're in their own business I can help them. If they're not, then I guess I could figure out a way to help them.
Dean: And have you had success with people who have gone from, you know, working in a corporate job to starting an online business?
Shaqir: Yeah. Multiple times.
Dean: Yeah. I think there's a couple of steps involved because first of all they have to figure out what's the market, who are they going to serve? Right? Because if they've already got a business like Tommy, where it's clear who they're trying to attract, you're just showing them a better way to get more of those people. So they don't even have to change businesses. Tommy, the base business stayed the same.
Shaqir: Yeah, I could double down on it. Sorry what was that last part?
Dean: Did Tommy start a business that's completely different from his financial advisory business or did he use your methods to like, blow up his financial advisory business so he's doing the same business in a different way?
Shaqir: Yeah, he's doing the same business in a different way. So he's sued it to grow his own business.
Dean: So this would be my question to you, that if I was saying to you, "Okay, you're only going to get paid, Shaqir, if you get the result for people. But, along with that, is you get to choose the people. You get to have veto power, or selection power, in what are the characteristics of the person that you're going to want to work with" so you can say, "no this person, that won't work for me". What are the characteristics or situations that would make you willing to take on that situation that you're only going to get paid if they get the result?
And that is like that's a really interesting thing. Because when I started looking at that for our real estate agents, you know we started thinking "Okay, I know who are the people who don't get the results right now". If you back test, this is a really good exercise actually, is if you back test and just take the last 10 people that have paid you for one of your programs, and you just look at them honestly and assess, and say, "the last 10 people who it's been a year that they've been in your program, or following your methods kind of thing, what outcome were they able to create, and are there people who fail, or who don't get the results?"
This is the great question to reflect on when you look back and just pick 10 random people from a year ago, and say "If I was only going to get paid, if I get the results, how would I have done on these 10 people?" Like, "How's my current system doing in delivering the result to people?" You ever reflect on that, or look back, or you know, what's your bread and butter course, like, the one that's the starting thing where, most people start? What's your, kind of, entry into Shaqir world?
Shaqir: It's a $3,000 program called Wealth Academy Accelerator.
Dean: Okay, and so, 3,000 you said?
Shaqir: Yeah, 3,000.
Dean: Okay, so if we took the people who are buying your $3,000 course, and we were to look back a year, how long is the course?
Shaqir: The course is 2 months.
Dean: 2 months, okay. And what's the promptest outcome, or the expected outcome that somebody's going to get from, what do they think they're buying for $3,000?
Shaqir: They think they are buying a faster way to start their own online business.
Dean: Okay. And so, if we took 10 random people. How many of those would you sell? How many of those in a month would you bring on? Would you bring on more than 10 people a month on that?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: Okay, yeah, so. If you took, let's even just say, the class of June 2018. Right, we went back to everybody who started in June of 2018 and we just looked in on them, and said, "out of all of the people that started, what percentage of them would have started an online business that's making money?"
Shaqir: You know, I wouldn't be able to tell you from the top of my head.
Dean: Right, and part of the thing is, and I say this like only just because we're all in the same situation. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter to you, as in you don't care what happens, but you don't have any reason to know why.
Because when you're saying, they gave you the money and you did the course for them, and everything is in there, and this built in, natural, external blame shifting can naturally happen, that, well, it's all in there. If they follow the program, they'll make money. And you maybe pat yourself on the back and say "well we haven't had any refunds. Nobody asks for a refund." Do you offer a refund?
Shaqir: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking, is that I didn't get a single refund.
Dean: Exactly, so, you feel good about that, but you don't dig in and see what happened over the course of the year. Like it would be very valuable for you to know, do 100% of the people who do this have a positive outcome? Is it 10% of the people, you know? It would be really interesting for you to know what is actually happening right now, just with what's happening.
So when I've looked back on our money making websites program for the realtors, I saw that 80% of the people that we worked with were successful. Their websites are up and running, they're multiplying the money that they're spending on driving traffic to it. And there are maybe 20% that were struggling, or weren't getting the result that they needed. And I started looking at those people for, what are the common elements there?
And so I started looking that, sometimes it was because they're in a market that's too small and there isn't enough search volume to get the traffic that they need or at the velocity that they need. All the numbers are the same, like, the conversion numbers and things. But they just can't get the same search volume that they could get if they're in a more populated area, right?
Or, that they were brand new in real estate and they didn't even know what to do if they got somebody to work with so they were struggling that way. Or they were too busy, like working in their business that things would fall through the cracks, right? They wouldn't be connecting with leads or following up or, you know, the way they were doing that. Or they were delegating it to somebody else who would cherry-pick, or, you know, not be invested in the thing. They were just looking for people who were ready to go right now.
And I started looking at those things and I thought, if I could identify those people initially and head them off at the path, kind of, you know, stop the then coming in. That I could have great confidence that we were going to get the result for somebody. So I started it as a pilot program. And I said, "I'm starting a new pilot program, and I'm looking for some very specific people, so if you live in a market over 20,000 people, you've been in real estate for at least 1 to 2 years, you personally work with buyers and sellers, you've got time to work with at least 2 new buyers a month starting next month, you are friendly and coachable, and you can keep a secret, then reply to this email. Put Project Cyrus in the subject line, and tell me a little bit about you, and your business, I'll be picking people this week".
And that was because I knew that if I got people who met those requirements that they would have a really great success rate. I knew that I could get them the outcome, and I was willing to put my money on the line. I was willing to say that, we're going to take you through this 90 day program. And when you do your first transaction, you can pay for the website. But I didn't charge them anything upfront.
And there was zero friction.
Shaqir: So how did you get paid by getting them the results first?
Dean: Yep, that's exactly right. I showed them, I set them up, I said "Listen,” it cost me $180 per person to set them up, buy their domain name, get the website set up and setup their ad words account and do all of these things. I took 30 people on at a time, and it cost me $180 per person to run them through this 90-day process. But at the end, then, we were getting $4500 and $99 a month, and that, at the time, was five times more money than what most real estate websites cost. You know?
Shaqir: Yeah, that's powerful.
Dean: But it was because we're able to get the result. And, my realization out of that was that sometimes it's less expensive to get the result for somebody than it is to convince them to give you money to get the result.
Shaqir: Wow.
Dean: Because I know that if I had that person and I just let anything that I could possibly do for them to get the stuff set up, I could do it faster and less expensively than it would take me to explain to them how to do it, and then wait and watch and know that they're not doing it the way that it should've been done. You know?
Shaqir: Yeah.
Dean: And so you think about that, if you know, my offer to them was that we're going to build your website, I'm going to take you through the whole training program, and at the end of 90 days, you'll either have done your first transaction and you can pay us for the website and then $99 a month.
Or, if you see how it's working, you've got leads, you're nurturing everybody, you're almost at the point where you've done your first transaction or you can see how it is going to work out. That I would say, you can pay us the $99 a month and pay us the $2500 when you do your first transaction. And now they would start paying the 99 and then over the next 60 or 90 days, pay us when they did their first transaction.
Shaqir: Yeah, so you were saying.
Dean: It was just such an effortless way to get people involved. That was the turbo boost for our business. Now I was able to bring in 30 people at a time and it was kind of, effortless. Systematic effortlessness.
Shaqir: And then you would put them into your software to, do you think that, you know, when you look at it now, what would be the equivalent for you? If you say the $3,000 program that you offer. First of all, it would be a very interesting thing for you to go back to a year ago and just for your own curiosity, look and see what happened with those people, you know? Have they got a business online? Have they got stuff? Have they gone on to buy other things from you to advance to your more expensive programs? You know?
Shaqir: Yeah. It's a very good point.
Dean: Yeah.
Shaqir: Yeah. So I remember I did do a roadshow many years ago using the 9 word email, that's different than the case study emails that you're talking about?
Dean: Well, the email was part of it, but the offer behind it was really what the magic was. I did use the 9-word emails, or the conversational conversion process, to bring people in to that program, you know? But it was the offer that really made the difference. And I think if you look at it like that, right?
Like, looking at it and saying, "What could I do"? You know, if you take that program for instance, your $3,000 program, that is for people getting started, what would be the outcome that you could bank your payment on? Even just for the thinking exercise of it. Not necessarily that that's how you're going to do the offer, even just the thinking process of it gives you absolute clarity. Plus the thing about it even though my offer for the real estate agents seems so super generous, what I'm really saying if you strip it away is "I'm going to show you how to do one transaction, which is going to roughly double what you're paying for the training". Like they, on average at the time, they would've been $5,000 kind of average commission that they would've gotten. And so, I'm charging them $2500 that they know that if they just do one transaction it's going to pay for itself.
But I didn't have to promise that they're going to make millions or hundreds of thousands, I just was super generous in saying "look I've got this way I know you need to make money, I've figured it all out, and a matter of fact I'm going to do it all for you. I'm going to buy your domain name, I'm going to build your website, I'm going to train you on everything. I'm not even going to take your credit card until you do a transaction.
How's that for confidence?
Shaqir: Wow.
Dean: You know, that's the thing.
Shaqir: Okay, if I was to let's just say I was to put this into a campaign. Where would you recommend I start? I could do what you just said. I could build someone a website, I could help them with their webinar presentation with their own business.
Dean: Yeah, that. So that would be laying out the whole program. Are you in my email mastery program?
Shaqir: No I'm not.
Dean: Because I know I saw you were going to join that at one point. In there I've got the entire project Cyrus campaign, everything about that is all right there. So the word for word emails and stuff, that's where the foundational things for peoples' running a campaign like that. Like, using a 9 word email to get interested people, then the conversation conversion to bring them into either a paid program or a pilot program.
It's funny how, you have enough a big list, you know, exactly the way I do my events for email master, for when I'm coming to London or going to Australia or doing any of my Breakthrough Blueprint Events, is like, the model is basically the 9 word email to get the people asking for more information. And then a conversational email explaining exactly what the offer is, with the opportunity for them to say "I'm in".
But I think thinking through what you would offer people, and just explaining it to them in a conversational way, is really what the magic is. What could be a great thing for you?
Shaqir: I did come to your Breakthrough event, I do remember implementing that 9 word email campaign.
Dean: Right! It's so natural, you know, because you're thinking it's really about one person at a time, multiplied by technology, you know? Rather than thinking about it as broadcasting or doing all of that.
Shaqir: No, 100%. 100%.
Dean: Yeah.
Shaqir: I want to definitely execute on this. Dean I also want to be respectful of your time, because really Dean you’re expensive for an hour.
Dean: Yes! I can't believe it's gone by that quickly. What's your recap here? What's your takeaway?
Shaqir: The biggest thing is, who do you want to be a hero to, how would I be able to get them results, even if they didn't paid me, they pay me afterwards. Those are the true biggest things instead of saying, "Okay, what can I send?" or "what can I market?” who do you want to be a hero to? That's what I wrote down in my notes. That's the biggest thing, yeah.
Dean: And it changes everything, I mean, that's the great thing is you get you on the lookout for people that you can actually be a hero to.
Shaqir: Yeah. Financial advisors.
Dean: Yes! Exactly! I mean, certainly you've got a hero story there's many of them. And they're all in the same boat.
Shaqir: 100%. 100%.
Dean: Yeah, I think that's awesome, man.
Shaqir: Dean, this was really fascinating. All the conversations I ever have with you are fascinating, so I super appreciate that very much. Yeah.
Dean: Awesome. Well I'm going to be back next June, I hope to be able to connect with you again even if we just have tea at the Four Seasons. If you're not in Saudi Arabia or Dubai or somewhere out like that, if you ever get to Florida or Toronto, let's connect to.
Shaqir: Are you in Toronto often?
Dean: I'm in Toronto right now, yeah.
Shaqir: Oh okay, nice. Okay, yeah I have done a lot of events in Toronto. I do plan to come back to Toronto Septemberish time.
Dean: Okay, nice.
Shaqir: If you're there, I'll definitely connect with you for some tea. And there's a great Four Seasons over there as well.
Dean: There is! I'm right down the street from them, I'm at The Hazelton which is just right down the street on Yorkville and it's a smaller boutique 5-star. It's great. You'd love it.
Shaqir: What's it called?
Dean: It's The Hazelton Hotel. I like it more than the Four Seasons.
Shaqir: Okay, that's cool.
Dean: There you go, now you know.
Shaqir: Hazelton. Okay, I like that. Hey Dean, could you send me the recording of this call?
Dean: Yes of course, yeah. I'll send you the recording, but it'll be up our podcast. It'll be up soon.
Shaqir: Yeah, Dean would I be able to get you for my podcast? I've been getting quite a few guests on recently so I'd love to get you sometime to join.
Dean: Sure, yep, yeah. Just send me an email.
Shaqir: Yeah I'll do that.
Dean: Yeah, okay man.
Shaqir: Dean, the line is cutting off weird. Anyway, Dean, before the line gets really buggy. We've had a great hour, thank you so much for your time and for doing this podcast. I will catch up with you very soon again.
Dean: Okay, awesome, I love it. Thanks Shaqir.
Shaqir: Have a good one, bye-bye.
Dean: You too, I'll talk to you soon, bye.
And there we have it, another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, want to go deeper in how the profit activators can apply to your business, 2 things you can do. Right now you can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com and you can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book and you can listen to the back episodes, of course, if you're just listening her on iTunes.
Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the 8 profit activators are part of the breakthrough DNA process, and you can download a book and a scorecard and watch a video all about the 8 profit activators at BreakthroughDNA.com and that's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business.
That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA, as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business and immediately look for insights there. So, that's it for this week, have a great week and we will be back next time with another episode of More Cheese Less Whiskers.