Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, we're talking with Michael Barrett from right here in Florida.
Michael is in a very interesting position that I think a lot of people find themselves in. He's taken the time to go through many different marketing courses, but he's struggling with that first step common to all of them. Deciding who your customers are.
So, we started out with a great conversation about how do you select a single target market and how do you choose your niche, but then turned to a conversation about why that's difficult for people. We talked about his Kolbe Index, Myers Briggs as a personality indicator, and it really came down to a conversation about understanding these baseline things, and what do you really want for your life? What is 'a perfect life' for you?
This is a really great perspective on the problem, and you're going to enjoy the conversation if you've ever wondered, is this really what I'm supposed to be doing here?
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EmailMastery.com
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 187
Dean: Michael.
Michael: Hi, Dean. How are you this morning?
Dean: I'm so good. How are you?
Michael: I'm great. Looking forward to our conversation.
Dean: Well, me too. Where are you calling in from?
Michael: Ocala, Florida.
Dean: Oh, wow. Okay, so right up the street.
Michael: I'm a transplant from Sarasota. I just got here a couple months ago.
Dean: I got you.
Michael: The traffic got too crazy.
Dean: I got you. Well, yeah, I'm very excited to talk with you, and I love doing these kind of calls. I read a little bit about what you have going on, and one of my favorite topics to talk about, picking target markets, so why don't you tell me the whole story here so we can set the stage, and then we can jump off from there.
Michael: Over the course of the last 15 years or so I've made an effort to go through a number of different internet marketing training courses, and it seems inevitably that they all go through the process of doing the research, and finding potential targets, and interest levels, and then identifying what people are really interested in, and then narrowing down to a niche.
I'm really good at research, and I have a fairly diverse background experientially and professionally, and I have a lot of interests, so it's easy for me to find things I want, but when it comes down to the instructions in the courses that consistently they sum it up basically in a one page instruction of be sure to spend enough time on the niche market before you move onto the rest of the course.
It's usually my stumbling, and I can't identify why so much, but finding-
Dean: One of the natural things, I'll start it there for a second, because it's a universal thing that when you know ... This is where self-awareness comes in to a lot of it, and so you sent me your Kolbe score, which was you were 7-2-7-4. Is that right?
Michael: Correct. Yes. Correct.
Dean: So meaning you're a seven fact finder, a two follow through, seven quick start, four implementer. And so, I'm a 4-4-10-1.
Michael: Wow.
Dean: So I look at it that my whole thing is ideas. I've got all kinds of ideas. That's the domain of the quick start I guess. Now, you're being equally strong on quick start and fact finder is really putting you into this nonstop loop because you're so low on follow through, you're resistant to follow through.
I'll say this, I don't know how much you're really followed the Kolbe, or gone deep into it, but for people listening it's one of the most useful things to really understand yourself, because it's not about you've got to work on your strengths, or shoring up your weaknesses, it's having an awareness of your weaknesses, so I know for instance that I'm a one implementer, and implementer doesn't mean my motivation to get something done, or to implement something, what it means is the actual technical hands on the machinery doing the stuff thing, right?
Michael: Right.
Dean: I have no aptitude for that. When I realized that, and put myself into a position to shine in my strengths while supporting my what you would call weaknesses, you don't look at it as weaknesses, I don't look at it as that, it's just that's not my conative strength, my natural strength is not to get in there and build a prototype or do something with my hands.
So when I look at that, and became aware of it, it's really about creating an enviroment that allows you to shine in your strengths. Let's look at this podcast for example. I'm a 10 quick start, which means that I can think on my feet, that I love ideas, I love seeing connections, I love brainstorming, all of that kind of stuff, so this podcast is a perfect example of something that plays into my strengths, because I'm inviting people. I don't have to come up with content for the podcast. I don't have to organize it into a sequential outline, or talking point, or presentation mode on it, so there's no way to procrastinate it, there's no way to get behind on it. It's synchronous and scheduled, and the first and only involvement in this entire podcast is that this morning I see that Michael, and I quickly read the notes about what you're proposing that we talk about, and then I show up at the appointed hour, and as soon as we hang up the phone I'm done with it, because I'm not involved in any of the technical elements of this.
I'm not the one who's going to go and get the audio, and then figure out how to edit out the interruptions that we had today because of the wifi going out. I'm limiting my involvement in it to just this portion, what you and I are talking about. So I say that as an example to go down this thought with you of understanding why you sort of get into this perpetual loop, because you don't have a clear winner in the thing. You have seven ideas, which means you have a propensity for them, you like the ideas, and you like fact finding, and you can see how you can get into this.
Well, that might be a good market, let me look into this. Wow, that's very interesting, and you start going down the facts, and then that stimulates other ideas, well, what about this target market? I can see how that could be a good one too, but you don't have anything that is sort of setting you up to choose one over the other. Does that feel like an accurate-
Michael: I can substantiate it with 30 yellow pads of written stuff on different days. I have binder, and binders, and binders of research I've done. It's exactly accurate.
Dean: Because that's what you love to do. You're feeding your seven quick start with ideas from all these courses, and all these speakers, and all these marketers to give you exposure into, well, what could I be doing? And then, that drops ideas that you then shift over to your fact finder mode, which is equally pleasing to you to go and research this market, and you say, you know what? That would be a good market. But then, it stimulates more thoughts even, right?
There's nobody and no mechanism to take you out of that loop. Why I described about my podcast system to you is because I have taken myself out of the loop that's going to stop me from doing it, and so I've set a context for what I'm doing. The context is that overridingly our organization, and I say Dean Jackson, the village that is Dean Jackson, is we are single minded in our purpose for what we're doing with people, that we help entrepreneurs make more money. That's our guiding, overriding thing. Everything we do is about that outcome for entrepreneurs.
That sets up the opportunity for me to have a wide number of businesses that we help, lots of different businesses, but I've got a system for doing it, and I've got a context that stays the same, the Eight Profit Activators, and the Breakthrough DNA Process are the operating system, the fixed operating system, that I'm overlaying on every business. Every business has a before unit, and every business has a during unit, and then after unit, and when we use the proprietary metrics that we have, or the diagnostics in any business we can see in the after unit what is somebody's return on relationship.
And when I lay that down on top of their existing business it's eye opening for them because they probably have never divided their business into those three components, and they're never thought about how much of their business is specifically coming from repeat and referral business.
And what are the metrics to define the scope that they're doing that at? How many clients do they have that yield so much in the after unit? And so, all of that is a fixed framework that's universally present that I can overlay on top of any target audience as long as it's entrepreneurs, as long as it's entrepreneurial results oriented businesses. I've set up a scope that is single minded, but it's also broad enough that it gives me a runway to have many interesting things to do within it.
Michael: And the system you created limits your activity in the areas that you're weak at by blocking that out.
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: That's really brilliant. I need one of those.
Dean: That's the thing, right? That's the thing is it doesn't necessarily have to be that you take a very specific target niche. Most people who are coming into internet marketing if you want to call it that, their expressed desire is to get into internet marketing, which really there's not really anything ... I think we can really just call it marketing, because you don't want to define it by the mechanism. We had Dan Kennedy, one of our early on the ... I have a marketing podcast, which I'll polish, and Dan talked about internet marketing being as silly as defining yourself as a Yellow Pages marketer. You know?
Michael: Right.
Dean: It's a mechanism, so you're a marketer, and the internet is the vehicle, right?
Michael: Yes. I guess I should stipulate there that my interest is in creating information products based on the things that I like to do, and market those. I've done it for a long time.
Dean: So tell me what you like to do? If you look at it, one of the first questions that I always ask for people, because by the way if you're going to overlay my system on this too to get profit activators guess what profit activator number one is? Select a single target market. I mean, it's not that we're all saying this, it's just defacto how it has to happen.
Michael: Let me give you an example. I love coffee immensely.
Dean: Me too.
Michael: I used to have an espresso shop in Seattle. At the early stages of that big boom, when it hit, and I love it. I've been drinking specialty coffee since 1967.
Dean: Wow. How old are you Michael? How old are you?
Michael: I'm 66. This is like starting my adult life in a way. As I look at the coffee more, and I understand the business pretty thoroughly. I haven't been a roaster but I understand the process of green beans and how you mix blends, and I've been on the front lines making drinks 12, 14 hours a day, six days a week, and I love my coffee in the morning. The difficulty I have with this is how can I monetize this on the internet? What can I package?
And as far as selling coffee, for example, the big problem there is it gets stale, right?
Michael: That's a big deal. Now, if I have somebody roast it for me and send it to my clientele they can steal my customers. That's a big problem, and particularly if I start doing a lot of business. I've seen a lot of things. Anyway, I've tried it up and down and different ways, and one of the things I've thought is creating a service, and incorporating travel with my love of coffee, and my wife who's an incredible picture taker and photo journalists in a way in terms of documenting the experience, and go from all around the country and try coffee out, and write about it.
I like to write. I like to blog. How many times have you gone to a city, it's a new time you're been there, and you want a good cup of coffee, and you can't find it? You look on Yelp and they've got all the local McDonald's, so that is something I really would like to do. I've thought about building an app to like this is your coffee GPS deal to get that [inaudible 00:18:39] of coffee.
Dean: There is that. Taki Moore told me about an app. He's a real coffee guy. He recommended an app that is exactly what you're talking about, the best coffee in a particular place. I wish I could remember what the ... I can't remember what the name of the things is. I'm just going to ping him and see if he's available.
Michael: What I find about coffee in general, even when I had my customers in my shop, their perception of coffee is exactly what they're got used to, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: It might be the coffee they had with dad after a Sunday evening dinner, and they love the smell of that coffee no matter how terrible it is. That's their favorite coffee. So when you get people's opinion on Yelp, and reviews for example, not just Yelp, but any of them it's a very objective viewpoint, and nine time out of 10 it's different than what I like, so that's a problem.
I've thought about that idea for a long time, and that's one concept. That's one area I really like.
Dean: So part of the thing, when you look at this, talk about the different models here, because that's what you need to figure out is a model that will work, and if you're passionate about it that's awesome. So now, you have to start thinking it's the intersection between what you're really passionate about, what you're really knowledgeable about, and what people will pay for. You know?
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: Is there a market for it? That's part of marketing is about establishing that there is a market for something, like a monetize-able market, so you start to think, okay, well what other models could you do? Maybe it's a media type of situation where you create a podcast or a video podcast all about the best coffee roasters all over the country. You gather an audience of coffee connoisseurs, and who would be interested in that audience. Who would love to have access to that audience? You know?
Michael: My wife.
Dean: Right, exactly, and then to what end though? You know?
Michael: Yes.
Dean: That's where you have to figure is what is the outcome that you're really looking for, you know?
I think it's a really interesting game when you start thinking about your life and your lifestyle design as first and foremost supporting the life that you really want regardless of the market sort of thing, is what's perfect for you, are you looking to build something that you sell for 100 million dollars, is a different vision of a life than something that you do for a few hours a day, or week, and that you have a nice enjoyable life. You know?
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: What's the purpose of this?
Michael: Ultimately, doing what I love to do every day is very important to me in terms of how I use my time now, because I'm finding that time is my most valuable asset. The other side of that is I want to in the short term, say over a five year period, recreate a capital base that I can set up as my estate for my kids and my grandkids because I've hit the wall a few times in my experience, and I'm kind of starting over, and I'm starting late, so in the short term I've got to hustle, and I'm willing to work intensely hard and focus to accomplish some short term financial objectives, and once I hit that level that will sustain what I want to do then I'd like to back off and really focus on having a good time doing what I'm doing.
That's kind of it in a nutshell, and I've thought about it quite a bit.
Dean: Has that been the pattern of your life so far, and you've found desire? You've got 40 years of adult life behind you here, and started drinking espresso in 1967. Since you were sipping espresso back then till now what's been the arc of your life so far? What's been the pattern?
Michael: I'm most happy when I'm starting things, when I'm starting an enterprise. I set up a carbide tooling business in Montana in my garage, and I built it into a pretty darn good business, and I loved it. I loved the product. I loved my clientele, but part of what I loved was building it, was getting it going. In that scenario I didn't have to worry about the paperwork, the trail of junk I left behind. I would leave this huge trail of paper behind me and my staff took care of it all, so I can just go out and build relationships, and that was an exciting time.
I did really well from scratch. It was my brain child, and I implemented it into reality. Then later on I went into the espresso business. I started with an old broken down shop and no money, and I shoe stringed it until they did a full page color writeup on us in The Seattle Times, in The Sunday Parade Magazine. I went into the food brokerage business and I was a food broker professionally selling food to food service operations for six years, calling on chefs, the executive chefs and owners 50 times a week.
So I'm a foodie. I like food. I like kitchen knives. I like chefs. You know?
Dean: Yep.
Michael: I got into the real estate investing business. I spent 50 grand on seminars, and really worked diligently at it, again, starting from scratch, and building it up, and I built some websites around it, and I started doing pretty well, and then I got hammered in 2008. I got cut and half and the pieces dropped in the ocean in different places, but I kept the knowledge. I still love that industry. I've got several others I've done too, but in those arenas I've developed a level of expertise, and I understand the pulse of the business, and where I excelled is building things, building turf, building sales volume, building a given market area, building relationships, and developing clientele. I love it.
I did trade shows. I set up all the booths. We built all the stuff, and I traveled around. I had a blast. I loved doing those things. I also got certified as a workshop facilitator and I did that for six years. I think it's a challenge. I think I get bored after a certain period of time.
Dean: I think that's probably true. Is that your pattern, a six year loop, a six year pattern?
Michael: Yeah, maybe so. I hadn't thought it. Five, six, seven yeah that's about right.
Dean: And it's probably exciting in the beginning as you're going full steam ahead on things, and then what happens that the shine comes off? Do you get seduced into something different or do you get sick and tired of what it is you're doing?
Michael: In my case, not exactly. I ran into either partnership issues, financial problems, at different points, at critical transition points, and I had to start again. Now, in the tool business, in the coffee business, I would've been happy to stay in either one of those in perpetuity. There's that critical transition point when you hit a period of growth a lot more capital's required to go to the next step. In those situations that's been my limiting factor. I didn't have the financial strength to grow it to where I wanted to go.
And maybe like in the coffee business, I was really limited by my location, and at the time Starbucks was building I don't know how many. If you went to downtown Seattle at certain times in that time period there was a Starbucks on four corner locations within two blocks.
Dean: Yeah, I've been. I've seen that, it's great.
Michael: And they were paying triple, and they would go in, and they had brokers doing nothing but seeking out those locations for them willing to pay top bucks, so as an independent that wanted to compete with that, the real estate it was the bugger, because people that were banking 350 a year on a little cart in front of a hospital when their release came up the owner of the hospital would either triple the rent or put their own cart in, so that said I kind of have to buy the building, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: And getting a good location is a real challenge in the coffee business, so that was that particularly example. Anyway, it's been I guess a capital timing issue at critical junctures.
Dean: So one of the things, and it's again with this self-awareness, it sounds like in a lot of ways you're very similar to me. I couldn't operate my way out of a paper bag as a business operator, and I have no interest in the skills of being a business operator. I have no interest in that. I'm not interested in scaling anything. What I'm interested in, and what I've devoted all of my attention to, is I like getting things what I call scale-ready. I look at myself as a scientist to figure out the scale-ready algorithm that makes something work.
I've spent a lot of time in the real estate world, in the residential real estate agency world, and so I have figured out over 32 years all of the big pieces, all the big things, that real estate agents want to get. They want to get listings. They want to get referrals. They want to find buyers. They want to convert leads. All of the things that you need to do as a real estate agent I've really spent my time experimenting, documenting, creating systems that can be turnkeyed so that all the realtors have to do is just install this system, and they get the results, but I don't have an interest or strength in the business of that, so I've surrounded myself with people who are able to do those things.
And that's really I think where you start to look at your role. You might be a really valuable contributor to a team that has the capabilities to do whatever they're doing, but you could add value as an adjunct. You don't have to be ... You can have all of that freedom, and get to do the things that you want to do, but imagine thinking about of yourself as being almost like a tenured professor, or something. You know?
No really, where you get to do your research, do you stuff, add your value, but it's in the arms of a supportive organization.
Michael: The reason I laughed is not at the content you said, but because people in my life have called me The Professor over time, you know?
Dean: Right.
Michael: That's what I was laughing about.
Dean: Yeah. Do you know what your Myers-Briggs type is?
Michael: My what?
Dean: Your Myers-Briggs type indicator.
Michael: No, I haven't.
Dean: Okay. That'd be a good one for you to know in conjunction with your Kolbe because that tells you about what your personality is, your strengths. Quickly, I think we can do a little type work with you here, so there's four basic pairs of things that you are rated on. There's extroversion or introversion, so you either tend to be more extroverted, which you seem like that's probably what you are, because you seem to like getting out and talking to people. Am I right about that?
Michael: Nice people. Yeah, nice people.
Dean: So would you say you're more extroverted that introverted?
Michael: Yes, I definitely am.
Dean: Intuitive or sensing? Intuitive is that you see the big picture of things. The sensing is you see the details of something. Intuitive people tend to think contextually or look at the big picture, or the future oriented, and - of something, and sensors are more by sensations of things, the present of things, or the details.
Michael: I'm definitely a big picture person.
Dean: Intuitive.
Michael: I am, definitely intuitive, but I'm also really adapt at the other element of it.
Dean: Yeah, I got it.
Michael: Okay.
Dean: And then, the T or F, thinking or feeling, that you're making decisions logically or emotionally or that you think things through that way, or make decisions based on how you're feeling about things.
Michael: I'm definitely more of an analytic there. I'm 51 analytic, 49 creative, but I have a strong thinking side in terms of logic, and figuring it out.
Dean: And then, the other pair is either perceiving or judging, and perceiving is open-ended, you like to have options, or things, and judging is closed and settled, like you'd rather have something settled and make a decision about something. I don't think there's any chance that you are a judger based on conversations that we've had, but I think your preference is to have things open, and you kind of go with the flow. That's my perception, and I think that's true, so I agree with you. Okay? So then, you are what I would say is an ENPP, and that is ... I'm the introverted counterpart of that. I am an INTP, which is the same thing, we're entrepreneurial.
Left to our own devices nothing would happen. I'm saying that's the thing, that you're an extrovert, that you're going out, that you're full of ideas, you love things, you get things, you love to express your ideas, and you're very convincing in your things, and friendly, and people love to be around you, but your ability to let's call it get things done, or to close something, or whatever, if you have the opportunity for things to remain open you prefer to keep seeking, especially given your fact finder, quick start dilemma. Right?
When you couple those things, you're a quick start, and your fact finder, with your preference for perception meaning open opportunities that's a self-fulfilling loop that of course you never make good decisions because you're not forced into making a decision, and there's no reason to make the decision.
Michael: I agree with you, and I got the same feedback from Ed Dale one time. I was thinking experientially at what point in time did I make decisions, right?
And it almost always when I had to. We've got to figure out-
Dean: That's the thing. That's the thing, and you're good. That's the thing is that you're really good in a crisis.
Michael: I am.
Dean: If there's a real problem you can go in and you assess the problem, and you quickly search for the answers, and you're able to find a solution and implement it to avert crisis, and so I suspect that's where the thing is that at 66 now, looking back on it, you can probably see, and I'm just saying this is a clinical way here that I imagine that there have been ebbs and flows in your financial situation over the 66 years.
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: That you get things going and things get comfortable, and then that starts the path of maybe losing interest in something because you grew it to the point where you reach your level of complexity, you know?
Michael: I hadn't thought about it.
Dean: And then, it's starts imploding on itself, and then you got to figure something out.
Michael: I hadn't quite thought of it in those terms, but that makes sense what you're saying.
Dean: Yeah. And so, when you look at that one of the things that's helpful in that is to fix something. I think it would be a really interesting thing for you to find the thing that is going to fascinate and motivate you for the 25 years, because that's a really interesting timeframe. Let's get you to 91 fascinated and motivated, like 25 years, that's a long time.
Michael: Sure it is.
Dean: Yeah. And so, when you start to look backwards, and you start to think, well, what's been the through line here? What have been the things that have been the most important? I was just looking in my journal. Do you journal?
Michael: Not specifically, but I write all the time.
Dean: I would recommend that you journal, that you get a real journal, and start documenting all of this stuff. I started this process in 1996. I've got journals that go all the way back to April of '96. Now, even before that I used to write stuff but I wouldn't formally keep it in a place. I would write in notebooks and things like that, but I never kept any of it, or thought of it as a process. You know?
Michael: Okay.
Dean: And when I look back on all of this stuff it's this kind of realization, this kind of journal therapy that really helps shape everything that I've done. I started looking for contexts, and I start thinking ... In 1999, I went through a creative program with Thomas Leonard called A Perfect Life. The thing what we were doing was a perfect life, which means there are seven billion variations of this, not the perfect life that we were dictating what should be the perfect life, but a perfect life, meaning you've got one that's going to be different than mine.
Michael: Yes.
Dean: And the linchpin of that was asking the question and really contemplating on the thought to finish the statement "I know I'm being successful when." And you could say successful, or happy, or what's your outcome that you want. Successful is a good term because everything that encompasses success is that you're both financial successful, that your life is working, what you would deem as successful.
When you realize that the only time you can be anything is in the present, so it's not that I will be successful, it's not aspirational that this is what I'm moving towards, it's let's define it for how you'll know when you'll get there. I know I'm being successful when? When I went through that in 1999 that process became the guidepost for everything that I've done for the last 20 years. That was the turning point. And so, I answered the question "I know I'm being successful when," by listing out 10 ways that I know that I'm being successful.
And so, my number one was that I know I'm being successful, and say what would I like to do today? That to me would be the perfect life. A perfect life for me is to wake up with options, lots of things that I could work on. Now, number two for me was I know I'm being successful when my passive revenue exceeds my lifestyle needs, because that gives you the freedom to have the time freedom to know that I'm not doing something because I have to do something to pay the mortgage at the end of the month.
Michael: Yep.
Dean: That I've got that freedom to work on what. Now, it wasn't that I don't want to work, I love working, and so my number three was I know I'm being successful when I'm lurking on projects I'm excited about, and doing my very best work, so I'm challenging myself at the highest level that I'm capable of at that time.
Now, my very best work now is different than my very best work in 1999. You know?
Michael: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Dean: I know a lot more. I've had a lot more experience. The opportunities that I get to work on are much bigger because of the track record that I've developed over those 20 years. So when I look at that, that as a catalyst for everything that you're doing going forward that's got to be right first.
Michael: It's interesting because I think that those three things have percolated to the top of my pre-reqs, right?
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: It's like if I'm going to go out and start all over and build this again I've got to do it in a way that I really love it every day. Right?
Dean: Yes, yes.
Michael: You can almost quote my thoughts in those three qualifiers that you mentioned because I've done so many things I didn't like, but every time I've done something I like, or a product I'm excited about I just get so good at it. I get so enthusiastic. I get immersed in it and I love it. I don't care if I work 16 hours a day. I absolutely love what I'm doing, and I miss that element. I miss that element.
Dean: And there you go. So part of it, the linchpin that makes it all work, that makes it possible, is you've got to get to a point where the money part if handled. Right?
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: That the money part has got to be the first thing. Now, it doesn't mean that you have to get to a big pile, because again the thing about it is that we're talking about being successful, and that means today, that when you look at it today can you be successful? Can you wake up today and say what would I like to do today? Can you do that?
Michael: The money's a prerequisite today.
Dean: Absolutely. So part of your thinking for today is I've got to get going because I've got to pay this, whatever the next - that you need is, right?
Michael: Absolutely.
Dean: If you've got to work today to pay for the bills at the end of the month then that's got to be your first priority, and so you start to think about it, is what's the surest way that I can get to that level with the least amount of energy to just the baseline? When you look at it what's the minimum effective dose of money that you need to have that sense that, okay, I've got some breathing room here? Not an amount of money but a monthly amount of money that you need to keep everything on track.
I don't need to know what that number is, but you need to know what that number is.
Michael: Yeah. I've been focusing on that recently and I'm getting a handle on it really solidly. What you were talking about reminds of Kiyosaki's game, the cashflow game.
Dean: Cashflow Quadrants. Yeah.
Michael: But the actual board game is called ...
Dean: I didn't know that.
Michael: In order to get to the fast track you have to get out of the rat race, and the way you define that is when your passive income exceeds monthly expenses.
Dean: Well, there you go, so we're kindred spirits on that.
Michael: Yes.
Dean: Okay.
Michael: Right now, I'm working towards each day that I can do what I want, so it's kind of a nightmare. I feel like a squirrel in a trudgen, but it's getting better. I have to say that. It's getting a lot better.
Dean: So part of the clues of it are to take an inventory of what do you know right now? What do you know in all of these years that you've been doing so far, what's the best possible result that could create for someone else? What's the best outcome that you can create? What is your skillset or ability to do if you didn't have to get involved in the operating of a business? There's no ideas in that. That's about disciplined execution. That's for sensing judgers. That's not for us. That's for people who pay attention to details. That's for people with high follow through, and high implementer, and judgers who like to get things settled and make sure that the rules are followed and everything, the system is followed.
That's not for us.
Michael: Yeah, I don't strive on checklists.
Dean: No. We make checklists. We make them. We don't follow them.
Michael: Exactly.
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: Oh, man.
Dean: It's like you're running a relay race, a four man relay, and you're the best first leg of the relay but you've got nobody taking the baton at the first checkpoint.
Michael: It's like you're reading my mind here. You're right on target with this. It feels good to be heard for a chance in a way.
Dean: Right, yeah. I'm just telling you that's got to be the first thing is to find somewhere where your skills could fit in as a consultant, or as a contributor, a team member, something that you're feeding your ideas, your leg into, an organization that can take them and run with them. That would be maybe a good place to start, to get to that point where not where you're a full-time employee in something but getting to a point where you could contribute something that's going to have some longterm stuff that maybe you look at if it could be done with 30% of your time, or 50% of your time, or whatever it is that you're giving yourself the baseline.
Stuff is covered so that you can now dedicate the rest of the time to this pursuit, because you're never making the right decisions under pressure. You're making short term decisions, not that you're patiently building something sustainable over 25 years. You know?
Michael: Right. I agree with everything you're talking about. You're summing me up to the core really accurately.
Dean: I'm one of you. That's it. That's the thing. I've got to help my people. I'm just sharing with you that's the thing that's going to make the difference is to really get clear on that, and then job one has to be just like you described it, get out of the rat race.
Michael: It's getting to a point where it's not really optional anymore.
Dean: Right.
Michael: It's almost to a point psychically where I have to, where I'm going to crack and two and freak out, or something.
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: I feel so constrained intellectually and spiritually, because I don't like being an operational person. I'm not good at it.
Dean: Right.
Michael: I don't try a lot. I'm good at it.
Dean: Don't beat yourself up. It's okay. Not everybody is that, and that's okay, because there's a lot of operational people that couldn't come up with an idea if they had to.
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: They couldn't make a checklist. They'd have to follow them, but they're really good at following the checklist. If they know exactly what to do they're going to complete the mission, and they're going to get it done at all costs, and they'll stay late to do it, and they'll make sure it's done, but they're listening to somebody to give them the mission.
And so, it takes everybody. It takes everybody. How did all this land? Because this has been a delightful conversation, and I think a lot of people are going to resonate with the conversation that we had today.
Michael: I feel in a certain way I'm talking to somebody for the first time that's really understood me in 15 or 20 years, which is amazing considering how this is our first interface outside of a brief email. You know?
Dean: Yeah.
Michael: I feel like I know you because I read your stuff.
That's not fair to you. Your interpretation of what I told you is stunningly accurate, and to a point where I feel a sense of resonance, resonance for the first time in a long time, like I'm finally being heard or something.
Dean: That's great.
Michael: It feels great, man, because I've thought about these same things myself but you seem to have coordinated the components in a way that I hadn't framed it before.
Dean: That's good. I think a good next step for you would be get yourself familiar with your ENTP. If you just search Google, and put ENTP that'll come up right away. It'd be like reading all about yourself, and it shows you your natural strengths, and how you may foil yourself, or how to look out for those things.
That would be very helpful. And then, really thinking through the "I know I'm being successful when," and then just thinking about taking an asset inventory of your capabilities, and where you could add value for someone else, and I say someone else, certainly even if you're going to do it as an entrepreneur. It all comes down to being able to deliver a result for somebody else. Right?
Michael: Yeah.
Dean: They're either going to pay you individually to help facilitate that result, or you're going to be paid by an organization to add the value that you can add to them.
Michael: Okay.
Dean: It's really good.
Michael: Where do I find those opportunity -?
Dean: Right, exactly. That's funny. And that all comes from knowing what your ... Take an inventory, you've had all the experience there that you can certainly see which skills that you have are economically viable and in-demand.
Michael: I've done similar stuff many times. I'm going to try and approach it this time with limits and parameters on what I'm creating rather than getting off on that, going down the rabbit hole again of thinking about the alternatives.
Dean: Yes. That's it. I love it. Well, Michael, it's been enjoyable. Thanks for hanging in with all the technical difficulties, but we got through it.
Michael: We did.
Dean: It's a good thing it's not me getting in here to have to weave all this together. It's good.
Michael: Yeah. I hear you.
Dean: Have a great day.
Michael: Thank you. It's been enjoyable. I appreciate your time.
Dean: Thanks, Michael.
Michael: Bye-bye.
Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, the want to go deeper in how the Eight Profit Activators can apply to your business two things you can do. Right now, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com and you can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book and you can listen to the back episodes of course if your just listening here on iTunes.
Secondly, the thing that we talk about in applying all of the Eight Profit Activators are part of the Breakthrough DNA Process, and you can download a book, and a scorecard, and watch a video all about the Eight Profit Activators at breakthroughDNA.com. That's a great place to start the journey in applying this scientific approach to growing your business. That's really the way we think about Breakthrough DNA as an operating system that you can overlay on your existing business and immediately look for insights there.
That's it for this week. Have a great week, and we will be back next time with another episode of More Cheese, Less Whiskers.