Ep023: Malton Schexneider

Welcome to the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast, my name is Dean Jackson, and today I have a guest, Malton Schexneider. Malton is in Louisville, Kentucky, and he and a Doctor there have been having tremendous success helping people with chronic back and knee pain and he has some great, great opportunities in his business.

We spent the entire hour talking and we touched on every single profit activator. He already has a winning system that will turn people who are invisible, remember back pain candidates are people that are invisible prospect that we talk about, he has a system that will get them to come to a workshop, bring them into his office, sign them up as patients for treatment and get tremendous success.

We talked about how to multiply the results he's getting in his before unit, and I think you're really going to enjoy and get a lot out of this episode. Especially, if you're dealing with a prospect who is invisible.



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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 023

Dean: Malton

Malton: Malton Schexneider, yes it is me.

Dean: How are you?

Malton: I’m doing well. How about yourself?

Dean: I’m fantastic. I’m looking forward to hatching some evil schemes with you today.

Malton: Awesome! I’ve been looking forward to this call for quite some time. It’s been a while.

Dean: It’s been a while. Yeah I can do one every day for a long time for all those people that we have. You know what? It’s my favorite thing. Every time it’s a new adventure. We always come up with some great fun, evil schemes. I’m looking forward to this. Why don’t you set the stage? Tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do and what kind of evil scheme we’d like to hatch today.

Malton: Again my name is Malton Schexneider. I am born and raised Cajun boy from South Louisiana that’s living in Louisville, Kentucky now. I am a physical therapist of 34 years’ experience and a student of marketing probably for the last 20 years. Followed your path, Joe Polish, Abraham, Alex Mandossian just a lot of these guys that I follow.

Dean: That’s great. You’re in the world there.

Malton: Yeah. I am currently working with a physician here in Louisville. We are specializing in treating patients with back pain and osteoarthritic conditions of the knee. We provide medical and rehabilitation services for people who are suffering with back pain or osteoarthritis pain of the knee and are looking for a way to quickly and easily end their pain and prevent the problem from returning. I have been working with this doctor and basically introducing him to direct response marketing.

I really believe that in the healthcare fields especially in my particular field of physical therapy as well as with medical practitioners, if you want to remain in private practice, the way to do it is to go directly to the public. I looked around at how some of these physician offices and other rehabilitation practices are marketing themselves and I just smile because I know we can do it better.

Dean: That’s a good start that you can do it better. What kind of success rate do you have? What can you do for people?

Malton: Let’s just look at the back. That’s been my specialty my entire career is what I was known for and what I had studied over the years. Basically I’m getting about an 85% to 90% improvement with people’s pain levels. We measure that by at least a 50% reduction in their pain. What we’re seeing with what the doctor is doing with the knees, we’re putting much on par with that as well. About a 92% success rate based on a 50% reduction in pain levels with what he’s doing.

Dean: That 50% you’d think and say, “You’re not totally getting rid of the pain.” In a world where somebody is living with chronic back pain that’s debilitating, 50% reduction to get it to where it’s nagging would probably be a godsend, right?

Malton: Yeah. If we can get people up and active and get them at least participating in their lives again and basically managing their pain without drugs, then it’s a win-win for everybody.

Dean: Is this a surgical procedure or is it a therapeutic procedure? How are you doing it?

Malton: It’s a combination. It’s not surgery. One of the first things patients ask when they come in is, “Am I going to need surgery?” My quick answer is, “Probably not.” In fact, if you talk to the surgeons only about 10% of people at least with back problems ever require surgery. On the other side of that with the patients with the knee conditions, the surgeons want to get them into those total joint replacements. What we have to offer is a program that helps patients either prolong or eliminate surgery of the knee. On the back pain side, we’ve been able to drastically reduce the surgical intervention. When I tell people is that, “If in fact you honestly do need back surgery, you got to be a better candidate for back surgery which means that your outcome is going to be so much better.” We find that to be definitely true.

Dean: You got something great. Is it different than what all the other doctors are doing? Is it a unique protocol or approach that you have or is this something that a lot … there’s people everywhere doing the things that you’re doing?

Malton: If you broke it down and looked at the individual pieces of the puzzle or the individual things that we do, I would say that everybody out there does at least some of those things. What we’ve been able to do and then what I think is our magic sauce is how we’ve combined them and sequence them in the process. For the back pain folks, everybody has gone through rehabilitation or chiropractic or different things like that. What I tell people is that, “You’ve got a condition that you’ve tried to treat and it’s almost been like throwing a lot of stuff against the wall hoping something sticks. We’re going to back up a little bit and we’re going to take this and start eliminating variables. I’m going to tell you right up front that I’m going to get you …”

What I tell people is, “ I’m going to either cure you or kill you but I promise you I won’t leave you the same.” I’ve never killed anyone, I give them hope. With that hope, comes encouragement to follow the plan that I put together. It’s not a very difficult plan. What we’ve added to the element is that the physician that I work with is in the world of regenerative medicine which is you’re going to start hearing a lot about that in the next few years.

Dean: I’m already hearing about it.

Malton: The potential out there is tremendous. We’re combing in a little bit of the regenerative things that he is doing with the rehabilitation and some external support devices that assist people with staying active and giving them the confidence to do more without the risk of hurting themselves further or as they say paying for it later. Once we combine all of that with our back pain program, we’re starting to see the results very quickly.

Dean: How long does it take for somebody to get that 50% reduction?

Malton: Within about four weeks.

Dean: When you’re saying 85% or 90% success rate, you’re getting people to 50%. What percent are you getting to know pain or …

Malton: That all depends on the chronicity of the problem. When we get somebody early like they hurt their back within the last four to six weeks and we get them in, then those statistics jump up to 90% pain free.

Dean: That’s part of it is moving into when somebody has that acute onset back pain. You can catch that early you can make that go away but also stop it from potentially from turning into chronic back pain.

Malton: That’s correct.

Dean: I get it. How is the marketing for that working? How are you doing there? What’s your process and where do you see the opportunity?

Malton: I see the opportunity is going directly to the consumer. I sent you a couple of …

Dean: I got one.

Malton: Okay. A couple of ads where we carved out our target market. One ad is for the knee pain people and one ad is for the back pain folks. That’s all we’re talking about in those ads. The idea was to get them to a free workshop where we go over our program and this will get people to sign up. Now the interesting thing between those two ads as you look at those. One is looks like news and the other one looks like an ad.

Dean: Absolutely, yeah. By the way, I’ll put these up on More Cheese Less Whiskers on this episode. If people want to see what we’re talking about here, I’ll put that up in the notes for the show. You just go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com. Okay?

Malton: The one that looked like a news article that pulled three times as many people into … they got them to call as the one for the knee.

Dean: I’ll just describe it for people. It looks like a newspaper article. Three columns, big headline at the top ‘How to get rid of back pain and sciatica almost immediately even if everything else you have tried has failed. Free back pain and sciatica workshop reveals how to eliminate back pain and sciatica for good all without surgery or painful injections.’ Then the article goes on to describe the workshop. A couple of testimonials there and the call to action is “Call this number today to reserve your seat. Sponsored by Spine and Joint Specialists in Louisville Bodyworks.” Have you run this ad many times or this was the first time?

Malton: We’ve only run it once at this point.

Dean: What happened? How much did the ad cost?

Malton: That ad was like a half page ad. In the Louisville paper it cost about $3000 to run that on a Sunday.

Dean: You ran the ad for $3000 and you got … How many people called?

Malton: We had 60 people that response to the ad.

Dean: That’s right around $50 per response, right?

Malton: Yes.

Dean: Did they all come to the workshop?

Malton: We had 25 people sign up for the workshop and there were several others that didn’t come but ended up scheduling a consult after the fact anyway.

Dean: Then, how many of those turned into patients? Do you call them patients, clients? What do you call them?

Malton: Patients. Are you talking about the ones that came to the workshop?

Dean: Yeah. I want to connect the dots from the profit activator one which select the target market, people with back pain. Profit activator two, where you’re trying to get them to identify themselves by running a half page ad in the Louisville newspaper. We got 60 people to raise their hand. Profit activator three, we’re going to educate and motivate them at a workshop. Do you say 20 people? How many came to the workshop?

Malton: Twenty-five …

Dean: Twenty-five people came to the workshop.

Malton: Then of those ...

Dean: At the workshop we made an offer …

Malton: Yes.

Dean: What were the offers?

Malton: The offer was to if you’d like to see if you would be a candidate for our program, we’re offering a no cost, no obligation consultation with me to determine if you would be a candidate.

Dean: How many people took you up on that?

Malton: Twelve.

Dean: Twelve people took that. Then, what happens when you do that? How many people end up becoming patients?

Malton: We had 100% conversion of the people that came.

Dean: How much into the initial program that you take them through? How much do you charge for that?

Malton: Each patient is worth if you combine just the rehabilitation side and the back brace that we recommend, each patient has the potential of being worth $3000.

Dean: On the surface here that looks like you spent $3000 and have made $36,000. That what it looks like on the surface. Does that sound about right?

Malton: Yeah, I think that’s pretty close. Not everybody got a back brace because they didn’t either qualify for the back brace or they didn’t need it. It wasn’t warranted.

Dean: Let’s say the 90 day value of these 12 people not lifetime value but the first 90 day say? Is that what you’re saying? Not all would be within the …

Malton: That’s all within the 90 days, yes.

Dean: If not everybody qualifies for the brace, would it be it’s either $3000 or what would be the other end of the range for a brace?

Malton: $1800.

Dean: $1800 to $3000 that’s the value there. Worst case scenario, its $40,000. $20-36,000 is about that works out.

Malton: Right.

Dean: Are you excited about that?

Malton: I would say that that’s a pretty decent return.

Dean: That’s pretty good. I think would be happy with that. That’s a pretty good vending machine there. How long ago was this that you ran the ad?

Malton: We ran the ad in September.

Dean: Have you ran it again?

Malton: No. The reason why is that the doctor I work with doesn’t like spending $3000 on the ad.

Dean: Are you kidding me? Wow!

Malton: This makes me want to run my head into the wall.

Dean: That’s an interesting thing. Right now what you have though is that you’ve got a system, a vending machine right now that when you say “This is what I would like.” If you’d put the label of what the button is that you’re pushing there, it’s called somebody with chronic back pain an ideal candidate for us. That that person, if we take $3000 and we divide it by 12, then we come up with a cost per client of … What would that be? $3000 divided by 12 is $250. There’s the question. If you found a vending machine that you could put $250 in and push this button and $3000 came out the other end, that would be a pretty good thing, wouldn’t it?

Malton: Yeah sure.

Dean: That’s an interesting thought that the doctor … Have you gone through the math like this with him?

Malton: Yes. I think part of the problem is that in order to get this rate at the newspaper, they wanted us to sign a year contract which would have been $70,000 for the contract. He just a young guy not really thinking about the potential here. Just looking at the 70 grand, I’m committed to $70,000, what if it doesn’t work type of thing.

Dean: Part of the thing is that that’s just to get that rate. How much more would the rack rate be or the remnant rate? That’s the thing where if you said to the newspaper like, “Whatever you have space we’ll run this ad at this rate.” Let them run it whenever they can. There’s probably other places that you could run an ad like that too. Probably other weekly newspaper. It doesn’t have to be that newspaper in particular. It’s an interesting thought when you take that into consideration.

I want to just point out something because it’s working what it is. What we haven’t really talked about yet is this idea of potentially making a softer offer on the frontend. Meaning offering a book that somebody could get but without having to commit to coming to a workshop right now. Just like you were saying the ad that looks like an ad got X. The ad that looks like news got three X even though the offer was coming to this workshop and they called a live phone number to respond.

That is I think if you made a softer offer of a book that somebody could get by calling a prerecorded message that you would get three times that number responding. Then invite those people to the workshop. Here’s the other thing that isn’t taken into account here. We’re just taking about the immediate forward only results here that you’ve gotten. What you also have is you have … How many people did you say responded? Sixty people called. You have the contact information hopefully of 60 people and 25 of them came to the workshop. You said you’ve already been in contact with a few of the others, right?

Malton: Yes.

Dean: Those people, if you look at it that those people have back pain and that’s not going away. They may be trying other things. They may be doing something else. They may be living with it. Maybe they’ve had let’s call it remission or they’ve had some relief or a cycle or something but something is going to happen. That over the next 12 months let’s say even if you just extend the potential lifespan of their back pain. That if every month if now in profit activator three you had some opportunity to communicate with them, sending them a newsletter, sending them educational pieces but all the while continuing to invite them to a workshop or to come in to for a special consultation which we can work on some words for.

That idea of extending the communication with these people. The ongoing value of these over the length of the next 12, 18, 24 months is tremendous. Now what’s you’ve done … Here’s the thing that you’ve done. You’re trying to attract an invisible prospect and I’m going to talk about the difference between visible and invisible prospects. Chiropractors if they you’re your target audience are visible prospects if you’ve got something that can help chiropractors. Homeowners are visible prospects. People with back pain are not visible prospects. You can’t point to a list of them. It’s something that you don’t know when somebody has all of a sudden tweaked their back in some way.

You have to be in front of people and get them to raise their hand and say, “Hey I’ve got back pain.” If you had a book that would allow people to investigate because they’re looking at all of their options. Anybody who’s in any kind of pain, it’s the first thing on their mind. I know I’ve had some back pain but luckily it was just like acute onset and I got treatment. I haven’t had any problems with that. I don’t have a chronic back problem. I know that when I did twist it and I did golfing that my back went into spasm. I know that for the next several days that was the center of my universe.

I imagine that people in pain like that it’s really completely on your mind. It seems like every nerve in my body was attached to that one spot. Luckily I have a great chiropractor and massage therapist. I was able to get treatment. I get up the massages now and keep it. I don’t have a problem with it. The person who’s in chronic pain … you hit on a little earlier that a lot of times they’re hopeless. They feel like, “I might be stuck with this forever.” kind of thing. Somebody else coming and saying those words is a relief. You’re right on track with the messaging.

When you’re saying to people how to get rid of back pain and sciatica almost immediately even if everything else you tried has failed, you’ve got me because you’re saying there it’s all amplifiers. How to get rid of back pain and sciatica almost immediately, that sounds great. Even if everything else you’ve tried has failed, this sounds like the answer.

Imagine if instead all of that stuff instead of saying, “Call to reserve your seat for this workshop which is probably if I had back pain my worst nightmare is to go and sit upright in a classroom environment to listen to the relief of that. It’s almost like there’s something a little ironic about that too. If I could sit there where I am kind of thing and get this information, as a book then we’re going to find that more people are going to respond for that. What you’re getting …

Malton: You’re basically saying that that workshop becomes the cookies.

Dean: Yes, that’s one of the cookies. Absolutely because what I’m saying is that let’s say we look at this as a bullseye. The centermost bullseye of this is a person who loves everything you’ve said and has gone through all of the steps. They came in for the consultation. They came to the workshop ahead of that. They read your ad and responded. On the outermost circle received the Louisville newspaper whatever it is. If we look at it, the broadest concentric circle is that they are readers of the Louisville Journal. Is that what you called it? What’s the newspaper?

Malton: Courier-Journal, yeah.

Dean: Their readers of the newspaper is the broadest thing. Maybe there’s a couple of hundred thousand people or however many that is that the newspaper goes to. The next inner … take one subset of that would be all the people that have back pain which would be a much smaller number than the total population. Right?

Malton: Right.

Dean: You got all the people and not all the people are going to see the ad. The people who see the ad who also have back pain was some number greater than 60. That’s what I’m saying.

That some number of people greater than 60 have back pain and saw that ad and were intrigued by the headline enough to read the article but don’t want to or not available to come to a workshop about but would love the information if you offered it to them. When you look at it that the number of people that would have this back pain and love to get a book called ‘How to get rid of back and sciatic almost immediately even if everything else you have tried has failed’ you would find that probably three times as many people would respond. The people who would come to a workshop are a subset of that group.

You would still get the people who would come to the workshop but you would also get the … You’d get 150 let’s say people who respond to that ad and now you’ve got a list of visible prospects. That if we look at their value over the next 12 to 24 months that goes up, up, up.

Malton: Right.

Dean: The good news is you’ve got something that works because you got an audience that wants it. You’ve got a mechanism in place to deliver it and that’s evidenced by 100% of the people that come in and sit down with you convert to being clients and boost the people that came to the workshop. There’s a lot of value there.

Malton: As we’re talking, I’m thinking about the ad that you ran in Success Magazine with email mastery deal.

Dean: Right.

Malton: Would you basically write an ad that drives people to a book?

Dean: Yes.

Malton: This is what you’re saying is drive people …

Dean: That’s exactly what I’m saying.

Malton: Do a book and would you make it as long as this one is here? I could almost see my ad cost shrinking because I could shrink the size of the ad potentially.

Dean: You want to experiment. The size of the ad is really the … what I measure more is the cost of the response. It’s not necessarily that if you ran that ad bigger, that you would get twice as much response because you haven’t added anything to it. That’s also saying there’s a certain point that if you ran that ad half the size of that one, that that doesn’t mean that necessarily you would get half the response either. You optimize it. One of the actual dimensions of this, is this … How big is this newspaper? Is it a broadsheet or a tabloid?

Malton: What’s the difference?

Dean: Broadsheet is a newspaper that is folded twice. You fold it open and then you open it up, bigger pages. A tabloid just turns once. It’s more tall and rectangular compared to the broader newspaper.

Malton: I’m going to guess that it’s a tabloid. The fold and then you open the fold and then you just start turning pages.

Dean: Okay, perfect. Like a magazine but a bigger size. I think that there’s potentially … you may be able to do an experiment with some smaller sizes there. Listen, you’re already running at 10 or 12 to 1. The ad doesn’t owe you anything right now. You’re ahead of the game on that. I would definitely look at doing that if instead of … if you took the language of this ad and you took the information that you share at the workshop and turn that into a book, that would be a win. I think if you had a book called relief as the big title and then that subhead how to get rid of back pain and sciatica almost immediately even if everything else you have tried is failed that would be a win.

Malton: Okay, I like that.

Dean: Part of that is that now … That’s always one of my winning formulas there is … especially with invisible prospects let’s get this list. Imagine if you ran that ad and you got 150 people who because they asked for a book called Relief. That’s always one of the great things about a book title is the book title is really like if you can get it to where the title of the book is magically speaking to the person that your trying to attract, that they feel like just having or touching this book is going to give them what they want.

It’s like Dave Ramsey’s book Financial Peace. Somebody is in financial turmoil, just holding a book called Financial Peace lowers your blood pressure. If there’s a book called Relief and how to get rid of back pain and sciatica almost immediately even if everything else you tried has failed. If there’s a book called that and I’m in back pain, how would I not want to get that book?

Malton: Right, I see that.

Dean: How would I not want to get that even if I know someone who’s in back pain? There’s so many wonderful things there. By the way, this is the whole point about you know right now even just me saying this to you and describing it, you know that having a book like that would be a winner. That somebody would want that, right? You’ve heard me talk I’m sure about the 90 minute book and that whole idea of creating just as small book that … 90% of the success of this book is that title and the fact that you’re offering it.

Now it’s then that allows us to now focus in profit activator three on all of the engagement with those people. We’re able to now build a list, get the attention of people who have that situation. We get exactly that with Luba Winter with the adult acne cure. She has a $900 device that helps get rid of adult acne. It combines red and blue LED lights with the galvanic and ultrasonic waves. It’s proven to be much more effective than just the topical treatments. It’s an educational sale. Nobody has ever heard of that kind of device but we know and again people without adult acne that’s an invisible prospect. Offering a book called the adult acne cure that seems like the magic formula for somebody who’s got that. We just want to set a context for the conversation.

Malton: Right. Yeah.

Dean: The other things …

Malton: I was just going to say the same thing could be done for the knee conditions.

Dean: Of course it could be, yes. This a model that’s proven. I’ve seen lots of examples. We do the same thing in real estate. People more often do homebuyer workshops or home seller workshops but they don’t perform as well as offering a book. We’ve been doing the same thing even this year with social security, with financial advisors doing … That’s one of the go to strategies of the financial advisors is to send out these wedding invitation type of direct mail pieces inviting people for a social security workshop. They get 0.5%, 0.6% response on the mailing. We come along and are doing postcard mail. Less expensive mailing to the same list and getting 2% and 3% response rates. It makes a big difference.

Malton: I know that when we ran this ad for both cases, the knee ad and the back pain ad, that there were a good bit of people that did it because we always ask for their email address. They were call in to a call center and we had a script of information that we wanted. There was a good percentage of people that did not have email addresses. How would you handle that? Just mail the book to them?

Dean: I would say yes. Only in Kentucky that could be true. You’re just playing directly into the backwards nature. That’s so funny, isn’t it? I don’t know whether they didn’t have an email address or didn’t even want to give you their email address or whatever.

Malton: It is an older population.

Dean: I got you. Yeah, that’s fine. I like to get their mailing address anyway. The exact message that we use on the recorded message is and we’re doing the same thing with social security. I’ve been experimenting with offering the website. A recorded message or just the recorded message. In certain age groups, just the recorded message works better. I think that that same thing might be true for this group. We just have a recorded message that says, “Thanks for calling for the social security benefits guide. If you leave your name, mailing address and email address if you have one, we will mail out your social security guide today.” That’s it. That’s what the message is.

The same thing, “Thanks for calling for Relief. We’ll definitely mail your book out today.” That’s all you need. Now you’ve got the ... we just get them to leave their contact information. Now we can invite them as the next step to come to the workshop. You’ve got a pool of people that you can continually invite to the workshop if that’s a great educational piece. How often do you do that?

Malton: We’d like to it once a month.

Dean: Perfect. That becomes a great referral tool. That’s what the book will be too by the way is that you’ve got the opportunity to … the book becomes a referral mechanism. If we talk about you’ve got such high success rate and people are so loving it that I would definitely want to amplify your during and your after unit and look at how many of the people … I don’t know whether this is something that you measure right now but how many of the people who go through treatment with you refer somebody out before the end of their treatment.

Malton: They always say, “I told my next door neighbor about you.” We always get that but we don’t always get the necessary information.

Dean: Imagine if you said to them, now you’re going through this and of course you’re going to start experiencing relief. It’s always good to future pace what people are going to experience. If you hear other people talking about their back pain relief or you know other people in pain, “Just give me a call or text me and I’ll get you a copy of my book to give to them.” Now when they call you then you can get the information on who their friend is and mail them the book.

Malton: Yeah I like this. This is really good.

Dean: That should be a metric. That should be something that you’re looking at. That one of your metrics should be for every patient that starts with us, its starting right now and you’ve got a four or six week treatment protocol that they go through. That part of your thing is how many people refer somebody before the end of this four weeks. That should be expressed goal and measurement.

Malton: Okay. That’s part of the return on relationship.

Dean: That’s part of your during unit. That’s one of the strategic objectives in your during unit. Your core objective in the during unit is to get them the relief and do it in a way that they have a dream come true experience. The strategic objective is that they refer somebody. That would be a natural next thing.

Malton: Okay, all right.

Dean: You pay attention to it and you measure it, that could be a game changer for you too. Certainly in your after unit. Your after unit, your return on relationship, that all the people who are in the family is you want to treat that. That you’re setting up this lifetime relationship of backs under management. That you’re the incumbent back relief provider and ensurer of these people. That if they’re coming through this, it’s not … hopefully they’re going through this for the six weeks and it’s going to do the job for them.

We’re going to be doing to maintain a lifetime relationship with these people and ensure that if they ever do have another acute onset type of thing or it gets worse or it continues on that they would come back to you or continue with you and feel like you’re my back guy. It’s like you’re the incumbent relief dealer. That’s something valuable. I think that those especially with a relatively high in the scheme of things client value. You got the opportunity that somebody who has back pain is probably going to have a high likelihood that they will continue to have back pain and have in the future back pain.

Malton: The book is within profit activator number two, is that correct?

Dean: Absolutely. That’s what I’m saying could be your … Just like you noticed the difference from the ad that looks like an ad to the ad that looks like news. An ad that looks like news offering a workshop is going to underperform the same ad that looks like news offering a book.

Malton: Got it. Profit activator four would be …

Dean: That’s your cookies. That’s your offer.

Malton: I was a little confused on this. Is profit activator four in the before or the during unit?

Dean: That’s the gateway from the before to the during.

Malton: That’s what I thought.

Dean: It’s like the doorway, yeah.

Malton: Yeah.

Dean: you’re looking that you’ve got all of these people as soon as they respond the ideal is that they call, they come to the workshop. They set an appointment. You do the consultation and they become a client. That can all happen very quickly but it’s also possible that they see the ad. They call for the book. They get invited to the workshop. They come to the workshop. They go through that whole process or they get the book. They don’t respond just yet but you continue to send something each month to these people because now they’re a high probability list. That’s an asset. You’re building this portfolio of a list of invisible prospects with self-reported back pain.

Malton: Even those people that did not come through anything … I realize that we drop them into some type of ongoing nurture sequence. Right?

Dean: Yes.

Malton: We’re even thinking about doing a podcast interesting enough to attract these folks.

Dean: Why not?

Malton: Yeah. In profit activator eight where you’re orchestrating referrals and I sent you an example of what I’m thinking of putting together. I can send that to those people as well, couldn’t I?

Dean: I’m not sure that I got what you were doing profit activator eight. What I have is I have two ads. I have the knee pain ad and I have the back pain ad for the workshop.

Malton: I actually sent two things to Lilian. One was I did a playoff of your postcard, your world’s most interesting postcard.

Dean: Yes, perfect.

Malton: I put something together like that just a mockup just for you to take a look at. You came to the Dan Kennedy camp years ago, correct?

Dean: Yes, of course.

Malton: I’ve always heard him talk about sending out a monthly newsletter to people and that has a tremendous ROI over the long haul. Just from a cost standpoint, the postcard seems to make more sense than a big newsletter?

Dean: This is the thing that what I look for is I am a proponent of the minimum effective dose. I look at these things. I am constantly studying and experimenting and looking to “What’s the thing I can do to get the maximum response in profit activator two?” I’ve never seen anything get as high as a book. I look at the ads that you were taking about in Success Magazine getting a 68% opt-in rate from print ads like that. Phenomenal!

Then in the newsletter I looked at driving it down of the idea of “What’s the active ingredient here? What’s the result that I’m looking to get? If I can just mail something to them and the result happens … I look at two things. Number one that they recognize that it’s me that sending it to them. I’m making that … staying in front of them. “Oh there’s Dean.” The second thing would be that they refer somebody. I know that the principle, the whole idea behind the world’s most interesting postcard is that looking at the logistics and the mechanics of how referrals happen. That all referrals happen as a result of conversation.

In that conversation, three things have to happen. They have to notice that the conversation is about back pain. They have to think about you and they have to introduce you to that person. If you don’t have a mechanism that allows the way that somebody introduces you to that person to be that they call you and ask for your book to give to them, what’s happening is they’ll tell people about you and they just say, “Oh I tell everybody about you.” That’s invisible to you. You don’t know. You don’t have a chance to educate and motivate those people. They might even not call you.

Malton: Even when those patients are in the office and say, “I told my neighbor about you.” That’s when I would just go to and pull out a copy of the book and hand it to them and say, “Give this to them.”

Dean: Pull out your notepad and say, “What’s their name and address and I’ll send them a copy of the book.”

Malton: Okay.

Dean: If that’s what you want.

Malton: The postcard that I put together was the living pain free postcard. Useful tips for pain free living.

Dean: Yes. Nice. Like it pain free postcard is great.

Malton: Okay.

Dean: Part of the other thing too is either you want to capitalize on those moments. If anybody says to you in your presence that they have a neighbor or a friend or anybody. You may even pull out your phone or their phone and shoot a selfie video with them. Say, “Listen Dean tells me that you are having back pain. I’m going to give him a copy of my relief book to give you. In it I’m going to put an invitation. We have a pain workshop coming up right here at the office next Thursday. I’d invite you to come to that as well and then we can help you.” that kind of thing that makes … they’re going to feel like an insider.

Malton: Right.

Dean: The reason that they refer is because it’s like everybody wants to be the guy that has a guy. I got a guy for you. I got the guy. The guy, I got the guy for you. We’re like this so much so that I could get him to shoot this selfie video with me.

Malton: That’s pretty cool. I like that. I’m going to do something like that.

Dean: Of course you are. That’s the big difference. The great thing that you have right now is you’ve got a winning solution and it’s working. I think that there’s so much opportunity to multiply. Just little tweaks. What’s your takeaway?

Malton: I like the idea of the book. I like the idea of pacing it out a little bit, stepping it out a little bit, giving them a little bit more information and becoming that authority. That’s what I keep telling the doctor. I said, “Our goal is to become the authority in this market for what we treat. That’s what we want to become.” I think that the book lends itself to that.

Dean: Yes, absolutely. I agree with you 100%. Talking about the minimum effective dose of book that’s the whole point behind the 90 minute book. When you’ve got a title like that Relief that’s exactly what people want. They don’t know or care whether the book is 50 pages or 250 pages. That’s why the 90 minute book is such a powerful tool. It’s the fastest, easiest way to get it done.

Malton: Right. I like it man. I like it.

Dean: There we go. I think that’s going to be a big win for you. Thank you for sharing. That was a fun evil scheme hatching session. You got such good stuff going on there.

Malton: I appreciate your help through the process and helping me get clear.

Dean: Awesome. Let’s stay connected. What I’d love to do is help you do that book and then report back on the difference between the workshop versus a softer offer in profit activator two. I think you’re going to be pleasantly surprised with how that works out.

Malton: Perfect. Hey Dean, have a great weekend. I enjoyed the time.

Dean: Thanks Malton. Bye!

Malton: Bye!

Dean: Oh boy! That was an action packed episode. I am so excited for Malton. They’ve got so much opportunity. That idea of getting the bigger group of people who are reading that newspaper and have back pain to raise their hand so that over a period of time we have the opportunity to not only invite them to the next workshop but the one after that and the one after that and the one after that. We’re not just missing out on the opportunities to speak to somebody who because they maybe weren’t ready to come to a workshop or were not available for that, didn’t respond to the ad. I think that’s going to make a big difference.

I’ll report on what happens when we execute something like that. Then the opportunity for referrals. That is such a great opportunity. I think that having the book called Relief as a gift that somebody can give to anybody they hear or run into with back pain is going to be a game changer for these guys. Different than having people say, “Oh I tell everybody about you.” I’m sure if you do a great job for people in whatever you do, the same thing is happening for you.

That people are just telling everybody about you. Unless they have a mechanism to let you know who they’ve told about you and a way for you to connect with those people and really help them get the relief or the benefit that you can provide for them, you’re missing out and they’re missing out. They’re not getting the benefit or the relief that you could provide for them.

This was a really great episode. We touched on every single one of the profit activators and its really good amplification for you of another example of the profit activators could apply to your business. If you want to continue the conversation, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com. You can download a copy pf the More Cheese Less Whiskers book you can see the ads that Malton is running and that we’re talking about in the episode.

Right now if you’d like to find out how your business, how the eight profit activators are either growing or slowing your business right now, you can go to profitactivatorscore.com and we have a score card where you can look and find yourself to … find out where the big opportunities are for you and maybe where the things are that you need to work on a little bit. That’s it.

If you want, by the way, to do a book like what we’re talking about in this episode, you can go to ninetyminutebook.com and download a copy of the Ninety Minute book. I’ll show you exactly how we go through the process of helping entrepreneurs create books in just 90 minutes of your time. I’ve got a whole team of people standing by to do all of the heavy lifting on that. We’ll do the brainstorming with you to help you get the content together. Then we’ll do a wonderful interview with you where we will draw out all of the best content that you have, then you’re done.

Then we’ll take it from there. We’ll get it transcribed. We’ve got editors that will edit and take your words and turn them into really cleaned up version of what you are saying that will take out some of the um’s and ah’s and all of that thing but get your message across. We’ve got designers who will work with you on creating a wonderful cover for your book. Then we’ll lay it all out in a book format and submit it and publish it through Amazon for you. All this and we’ll give you all kinds of marketing tools that you can use including a landing page and some ads and postcards and business cards that you can use to generate leads with your book. Standing by, ready to help you whenever you’re ready to get a book on. That’s it for this week. Tune in next time and we’ll hatch some more evil schemes.