Ep045: Derrik Hubbard

Today we have a really great conversation with Derrik Hubbard, a financial advisor in California.

He has a really successful system he's been using to mail an invitation to the ‘right people’, a specific group of people in the area around the location where he runs a Social Security workshop.

It’s a great example of the vending machine I’ve described in the last few shows. He has people to come to the workshop and from there they meet with him for a strategy session and becoming clients.

It’s a system that works, and over the hour of the show we ran through the whole process of exactly how it works over his 30 day cycle.

Picking the list, mailing the postcards, holding the event. Within 30 days, he has a number of people in his office and now he's able to work with them in a relationship that's going to yield a great return over the course of several years for him, and helps the people maximize what they're doing in their retirement.

We spent a lot of the time talking about how to maximize that process and how to lower the threshold on the front end. Instead of offering a workshop straight away, offering a book (a lower barrier to entry) and then extending the relationship we have with people to bond, and over a longer period of time, continue to offer ‘cookies’ to them like the workshop.

This is a really great episode to understand how each of the four Profit Activators in the before unit work together and how we can maximize them.

You're going to enjoy this one.

Take a listen…

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 045

Dean: Mr. Hubbard, I presume?

Derrik: Dean Jackson. How are you, Sir?

Dean: Oh, doing quite well. Very excited for today.

Derrik: I am too.

Dean: So, you've listened in, you know what we've got going here. So we've got the whole hour to just hash some evil schemes for you, so why don't you set the stage and kind of share what you're working on and then we can expand on what you think might be the best way that we could help you today.

Derrik: Sounds good. So, I am a Certified Financial Planner and also a national Social Security Advisor. I have a financial planning firm in Valencia, California and we have a separate educational arm of the company, which is call Santa Clarita Financial Education Services, which really is designed to be the consumer education arm.

Dean: Okay.

Derrik: It kind of is a good fit for my personality.

Dean: Yeah, I'm starting to see more and more of that in the financial world. I'm working with a lot of financial advisors right now and I see that popping up as some are working with some non-profit organizations, some setting up separate educational wings, just like that, for the purpose of doing educational workshops and creating educational opportunities. So that sounds like something similar to what you've got going on here.

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: Okay.

Derrik: It's a real good fit for my personality in terms of really teaching and educating and really presenting the separate educational arm as something that people can come into that environment without having to worry about a sales pitch, then over time building trust to bring them into the company-

Dean: Especially in a world where people are getting more and more sensitive to the idea of the free dinner seminar. There's no free lunch, right? People are becoming wary of that, that when you get invited out to a steak dinner, it's going to be at the expense of a pitch for something.

Derrik: Yeah, and so before understanding and listening to the podcast and the Eight Profit Activators, the current bulk of our clients would come through the educational courses with creating financial education service and it would focus just really on the in person classroom setting. We're doing it at the local community college and that would be filled through direct mail. But, what I really realize is there's two places where I haven't optimized that process and one is, if you've got let's say five thousand pieces of direct mail or even up to ten thousand pieces of direct mail and our current direct mail piece just talks about the class and so I'm in the process of working with the 90-Minute Books to create the 90 minutes book that would be the Social Security Maximization related, so-

Dean: Perfect, good for you.

Derrik: Yeah, we're wasting a lot of opportunity for the five to ten thousand people that see that, that all they're seeing right now is the fact that there's a class on a particular date that they may or may not be able to come to so it's a pertinent area of optimization.

Dean: Right. So you’ve heard me talk about that.

Derrik: Yeah. The first area of optimization is being able to use that 90-Minute Book to heave more people raise their hands and just the people who are wanting to or can come to a class, that's the first area of optimization, and then secondly I realize that really I've just been focusing on those 15 percent that are quote, ready to buy, and have completely ignored the 85 percent who may be wanting to interact within the next 12 months or 24.

Dean: This is great. I'm really excited because the language, I'm hearing you explain it and I can tell just by looking at you the way you're explaining it that you've got a good foundation in understanding of how the Eight Profit Activators work and you're aware of what's going on right now. So, let's start with, what's reality right now? Explain to me, it sounds like you have a before unit that works to some degree. It sounds like you're doing something an it's working to get you clients, is that right? I mean that's the model that you're using right now? The workshops get you in front of people?

Derrik: It does.

Dean: Okay. So walk me through the numbers on that.

Derrik: But I think that-

Dean: Walk me through how that works for you now-

Derrik: Well, I would say that-

Dean: We say, how do you pick... One of the things I often ask is, if we were on... Have you ever seen that show, How It's Made? On the Discovery Channel? Where they narrate all the manufacturing processes?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: Well, if you were on How It's Made, describing and narrating how your first floor profit activators work here, your before unit, how it works right now, what would be the narrative that would describe it. So, starting with in profit activator one, we pick five thousand home owners who have... How do you select who your... Yeah and just walk me through and then to profit activator two, what do you mail them and then how do you engage with them. Just walk me through how that works in a typical, the numbers of how this scenario works out right now.

Derrik: Yeah, so, typically the first profit activator is focusing on those who live within a five mile geographic radius to the community college that we do the course that meet a particular age demographic and financial demographic. That's done by the direct mail company that we use out of Florida, and then those pieces go out. They have information... It's a tri-fold that has information about the class and a place where people can go to register.

Dean: Is that the tri-fold that I have?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: You just reminded me of that, let me grab that while we're talking here.

Derrik: Sure.

Dean: So carry on, so you send the tri-fold, it's like a brochure? Like an eight and a half by eleven tri-fold brochure?

Derrik: Yeah, and there'll be a registration link, so people will register for the course. And then, we'll have multiple days that that will occur and we'll have anywhere between a three quarters all the way up to a one percent response rate for registration. So, that would be the profit activator one, and really in a sense profit activator two because the registration really is-

Dean: Well, profit activator two, that would be profit activator two, yes, that's the-

Derrik: Yeah, raising of the hand there-

Dean: Yeah.

Derrik: Of people who are wanting to come in.

Dean: Right. So that's when you use the brochure by mail to them and you get three quarters to one percent of the people who you mail it to to raise their hands. So, that would be, you would mail... I can't believe I walked all the way to the other room to get that and here it is right here. So, you mail this out and so do you mail five thousand of them at a time?

Derrik: Yeah, five thousand would be normal.

Dean: Okay. And so you might get, you might get, what would you say 30-50 people to respond to this?

Derrik: Correct.

Dean: Okay. And what... So, I'm looking at the one now, Maximizing Social Security, important changes, know what you can do so you know what you should do and then there's the... There are the dates and they call to register or visit your dot org website there. And, what I'm looking at on the inside here, I also see that you have the 'can't attend? Be sure to watch the five minute presentation and download the 44 social security secrets'. Are you talking about the response to the cards being... Is that 75, three quarters to one percent, specifically for the workshop or a combination of response?

Derrik: Yeah, now that's a good question because what you have in front of you is the format that I actually do not use. That's actually a colleague who has done something that has that cheese in there for people who can't attend, so what I'm thinking through is if I'm going to do a 90-Minte Book and that's going to be my cheese, one of my questions really is, and I obviously can go through the first question of the narrative of... But one of my big questions as it relates to the use of that mailer is the fact that you've got multiple calls to action and the direct mail company that I'm working with... I've heard you in the past talk about postcards that go out or direct mail that goes out that's really focused on-

Dean: One thing.

Derrik: Being called to action to the book, whereas this is a real big focus of the call to action to the class, and so I'm trying to figure out, what's the best way to marry those two calls to action without creating too much confusion about what to do when they did it. Because I only have a certain amount of real estate, that type of a tri-fold... You really, once it's folded, you've got one side that's addressed, but the other side is really the only area of real estate where someone's going to look at it before they maybe toss it and I'm really trying to determine how on that one piece of real estate do I show these two calls to action without creating too much confusion.

Dean: Right. Well, I always tend to have, you know, one call to action for profit activator two. I'm going to focus on one thing at a time.

Derrik: And so, the way that that-

Dean: The way that I look at it, here's where... When you're saying to these five thousand people, right? This is very much a... It's like a closed loop system here and you've got the five thousand people that are there, if you say the whole universe of the five thousand. Everybody's getting that thing, the tri-fold. Now, in order to be one of the five thousand, they have to live within five miles of the college, they have to meet certain income and asset requirements, right? You know you've probably set up... They've got a certain minimum investible assets as a filter rate device.

Derrik: Correct.

Dean: Right. So, we know that everybody in there is at least at that level. Now, if we take almost like a bull's eye, right? Think of it like concentric circles here, that you're narrowing it in and the bull's eye would be the subset of people who would end up meeting with you in your office. People that end up coming to potentially becoming clients. So, let's put that to the side for a second and let's go right to the end result here of what happens with these five thousand. You mail them out, you get three quarters, so let's call it, let's even go on the high side of it and say you get 50 people who respond to your mailing, to the five thousand. That would be one percent. And, of the 50 who respond, all they... Because your offer right now, is just for the workshop, right? You're not offering a secondary-

Derrik: That's correct.

Dean: Okay. So, you're focused in that, and of the people who respond, how many of the 50 will actually show up at the workshop?

Derrik: Probably 90 percent.

Dean: Okay. So, of that, so you make it 45 say, at the actual workshop. But maybe there'll be more people because they're going to bring their spouses or whatever.

Derrik: Correct.

Dean: And so, is that how many people... Do most of them bring a spouse with them?

Derrik: Yeah, I would say, two thirds.

Dean: Okay, so you end up with 60, 70, 80 people at a workshop.

Derrik: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Okay. So, of the 45 potential client units that come to the workshop, then what's your next step with that? What's the offer that you make?

Derrik: So, there are usually two and one is for them to come the very next week to a retirement planning class, for the purpose of helping them understand how social security fits into the entire context of financial planning. And then, also would be a strategy session, if they wanted to do the bypass.

Dean: Right, which would be a one on one, in your office kind of thing. A strategy session.

Derrik: Right.

Dean: Okay. So now, what happens next from there? So you get... If we're seeing, what I'm looking at, if we're kind of filling out our illustration here. We started out with a big circle that represents five thousand people. Now, inside of that we've narrowed with the perspective here that 50 people said, I'd like to come to that. And inside of that, a slightly smaller circle, 45 of them show up at the workshop and then, what happens next? So how many of the 45 will either come to the next week or come for a strategy session?

Derrik: Well, I would say that probably 30 percent will come to the following week's class and probably the same percent would do a strategy session.

Dean: Okay, so 60 percent roughly will take a next step, is that about right?

Derrik: Correct.

Dean: Okay?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: So, help me with the map on that. So, if I'm filling in my smaller circle here, that we've got 60 percent of the 45, which would be... I'll do the math here. 45 times point six is 27, so we get, let's call it 15 of each or so, 14 of each. 14 people come to next week's session and 14 people just skip that and come to a strategy session.

Derrik: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Does that make sense?

Derrik: Yep.

Dean: Okay. And so, of that then, of the 14 that come into the strategy session, let's look at that one in isolation. How many of those people will end up becoming clients?

Derrik: Let's call that 30 percent as well.

Dean: Okay. And so you end up with, call it five clients from that. Is that about right?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: Does that sound right? Okay. And then the 14 that come to the next week's workshop, how many of them then... What's the next step with them? Or do they get a chance to become a client too? Or do they get to then come in for a strategy session.

Derrik: Yeah, they'll recycle into the strategy session, but usually a higher rate, since they've now spent two weeks with me.

Dean: So what percentage of those would…

Derrik: So that would be probably 60 percent, probably twice over.

Dean: So, 60 percent of those, so 60 percent of 14 is, 14 times, so let's call that eight of those might come in. And of the eight, then how many would become clients for you?

Derrik: There we can say, let's say four of them. 50 percent.

Dean: 50 percent. Four. So, out of the... So, end of the line here, if we're describing narrating your before unit, it would sound like we pick an area with a five mile radius, five thousand people with the right age, income and assets, and out of that we get 50 people to raise their hand saying they'd like to come to our workshop of which 45 people actually show up at the workshop. And of that, we get 28 people who either come to another week's workshop or come to a strategy session, and of the 14 that come to the strategy session, we end up with five clients and out of the 14 that come to the next week's workshop, we end up with eight of them coming to a strategy session and four of those turning into clients. So, overall that whole process with that one mailing to five thousand homes yields us about nine new clients, does that sound about right?

Derrik: That may be on the high side, but I think for the purposes of what you're going towards we can use that.

Dean: Okay. And then, so what are the economics of this. What is a client relationship worth? What does that turn into dollar wise?

Derrik: That can vary, but I would say if we were going to average it, it may be six thousand the first year and three thousand every year afterward.

Dean: So, that's in your after unit, the three thousand a year going on and on and on. So, six thousand times nine, we get 45,000 and we've spent maybe less than five thousand on the mailing on the front end. Does that sound right? Or is that about what you pay?

Derrik: Correct. Yep.

Dean: So, that's a pretty good... That's running at about a seven or eight or nine times ROI, right? Nine times what you're spending.

Derrik: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Yeah? That's pretty good. That's pretty strong. So, do you find that that will hold out if you were to mail ten thousand? Or do those numbers seem like that a pretty good manageable number to work with as far as the workshops go, right?

Derrik: Yeah, I think the larger the classes, the less intimacy there is in creating the connection.

Dean: And, how often can you do these classes? How often-

Derrik: I've been doing them four times per year, but I'm thinking that they could easily be done monthly, during the months that people are, besides maybe November and December.

Dean: Yeah, and I think even that, if you did it in the right time of the month, you could do the... It's all about the timing thing. So, certainly, immediately you've got something that is working and... How often have you done this with that type of predictability. Like, what's your certainty on that? Is that a pretty stable systematic thing?

Derrik: Well, I think that the... What's more certain at this point is the earlier stages of the number of people responding, the number of people attending, the number of people raising their hands for strategy sessions. What I'm really trying to refine and improve right now is the actual conversion rate in office. That's probably my weakest point in the chain.

Dean: But, even that, I mean you're doing pretty good if you're in that 50 percent range, but that's certainly one opportunity, absolutely where you could get more. Let's look at why they don't become clients right now. What's the... And by the way, this is all in how long from the day you send the post cards to the day that they're in your office for the strategy session. How long a cycle is this? Is this all within 30 days, kind of thing?

Derrik: From the time that the mailers see it to the time that we're in office, that probably is a 30 day, yeah probably 30 to 45 day cycle.

Dean: Yeah, so that's a pretty good predictable system. I mean, certainly the easiest thing for you to do would be to do that more. Now, how many people, how big is that pool of potential candidates for you in your marketplace?

Derrik: Well, I think-

Dean: How many are there that you could do that with?

Derrik: I think that there's probably a maximum of... I don't think there's more than ten thousand that are within the five to seven geographic radius.

Dean: Okay. And are there other neighboring community colleges that you could do the same thing? Or is it-

Derrik: Yeah, there are. There are.

Dean: You're trying to particularly stay within your community. Is that part of why your conversion is so high, probably is because you're right there in the local community, right?

Derrik: Yeah, and just thinking through just how far are people willing to drive in LA to get from one place to another, to get to an office.

Dean: Right, exactly. Yeah. So, of those, so you're saying there's probably ten thousand people in your, in the demographic that you've got there that you're looking for.

Derrik: Yeah, I've done a past mailer one time of a ten thousand piece and based upon the demographics from the direct marketing company there were... They had to go a little bit further, but there were close to that number that met the financial demographics.

Dean: Okay. I got you. So, that gives you a good sense of what's going on here. It gives you a good sense of how big the opportunity is.

Derrik: Mm-hmm.

Dean: Perfect. Okay, so I think that the interesting thing is going to be, to see, if you could do that six times a year, instead of four times a year, that would certainly be a nice thing to do, but a different approach here is when we look at our concentric circles here, we look at going from the big loop of five thousand that our next definition, our offer, brings us down to 50 people. So that means that there's 4950 people who didn't respond to your offer. Does that make sense?

Derrik: Correct. Yeah.

Dean: So, we've got 4950 people who didn't respond and part of it is that they may have wanted the information but they weren't available next Tuesday or interested at that, to come to a workshop to get the information, but would love it if they could get it as a book. And so, when you look at it that my experience in doing this has been that you can get two or three percent of the people who get that same mailing list, you may be able to get 100 or 150 people who would want to get the information that you're offering as a book. And that becomes a lead generating tool here, you know?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: So, it's not unlike the realities of what we deal with the realtors here, you know? Like you're in a geographic area where there's only so many people who meet the parameters of what you're looking for and we're in the same situation here in real estate. So, in Winter Haven, for instance, you hear me talk about the lake-front homes. Right? There's 2100 lake-front homes in Winter Haven and that's the tool that we're looking for and we know that they have about a four percent turnover rate, so there's going to be 80 or 85 homes that are going to sell in any given 12 month count, right?

So, if you're picking this group of five thousand or ten thousand people, you can do something where you could potentially mail them something every month, you know? That's exactly what we do with the realtors, you know? It's like, you look at it like if we can just get them to raise their hand, that really now sparks the opportunity for you to educate and motivate people in profit activator three. Because you look at the fact that the people that you're getting are literally the 15 percent, the ones who are ready to go right now and the people who don't come in for an appointment or don't come in for a strategy session or choose not to invest with you right now, that doesn't mean that they're not going to. It just means that it's not right now.

What are some of the reasons that people, the 50 percent that come into the strategy session that don't sign up with you right now, what are some of the reasons behind that?

Derrik: Dean, I wish I knew the exact real reasons, because it seems to me like... I would say, if there's anything where there's going to be improvement, I think... I'm a very logical numbers oriented, fact-oriented person and so probably the way that I'm interacting and presenting is probably going to work more for the logical minded, where I probably need to create some type of way of having some type of offer or irresistible offer or... You know, we only get paid unless you get the result type of structure that is more compelling.

Dean: So how do you present what your offer is right now? What do you present to people in this strategy session? What would be the outline of that? How would that break down?

Derrik: So, the initial conversation really is boiling down to the financial goals that they're wanting to accomplish, the financial resources that they're working with and then in the follow-up meeting is really kind of the stress test of if their current strategy is going to accomplish the financial goals that they've set out.

Dean: You know, the interesting thing and one thing I've always loved about starting the conversation with Social Security is that no matter what their financial situation, social security is going to be some either sliver or chunk of somebody's monthly retirement income and that's a foundational thing. It's either a nice big piece of what they're going to have on a monthly basis or it's a little sliver of what their monthly thing is going to be. But everybody is equally motivated to get as much as they can, right? They want to get what's theirs, kind of, and they don't want to make a mistake that's going to cost them money, when if they were smart they could really maximize that. But that really then opens up the opportunity to have a discussion about the bigger picture. Because this is what you're going to end up with from social security. How much do you need, on a monthly basis? What's your income goal, there? And that gap then, is about how do we best bridge that? What's going to be the best way? And that's where your strategy comes in, is more of let's maximize this social security, but then what's the best things to do to maximize the rest of it.

Do you ever have any communication with the people who come to the workshop and choose not to come in for your strategy session or come back to the next workshop?

Derrik: No. And that's one of the big areas where I feel like, we're not optimizing, maximizing... Not only the 4950 who don't register, but also those who fall outside the tail of-

Dean: Yeah. Yeah, all those who don't come in for a strategy session or return to a workshop. So, when you look at those, that opportunity, those people are sort of still in profit activator three. And, I say this that profit activator three is a holding area. If we look at the purpose of the type of profit activators that we have, profit activator one is your sort of selection process. Profit activator two is a gateway. It's just, we run it and they either respond, go immediately into profit activator three, which is about educating and motivating, or they don't. And that's really it, right? They're accumulating in profit activator two. We're building a pool, an asset, of people who have raised their hand, that we struck a chord on profit activator two that compelled them to raise their hand, to identify themselves. I want that.

Right? So, when you said, you do the workshop and they say, oh I want that, and they say I'm going to come and of course some of them don't for whatever reason make it to the workshop, some of them come to the workshop and for whatever reason don't come to the next session and some of those don't make a strategy session, right? So, when people come to the workshop, that is sort of your profit activator four offer that is a gateway. You know? Now, profit activator four is a gateway into your during unit. So, as soon as somebody says yes when you meet with them for the strategy session, now they're a client, right? Now, they're moving into your during unit.

And so, what we want to do is think about all the people that are here in profit activator three, the ones that have raised their hand, but haven't yet taken you up on one of your offers. Those people are an asset, because we know that the 85 percent of the people who are going to do something are not going to do it for at least 90 days and there's a lot of reasons for that. A lot of people, they're a little bit more conservative in that you're somebody that 30 days ago they didn't even know. And then they come to this workshop and they meet you and then all of a sudden in this whirlwind and they're in this office and they're handing over their life savings to you. That's a pretty amazing thing in itself, right? When you really think about that, and that's a testament that people are doing it at the rate that they're doing it right now is really a testament to your ability to bond and build trust with people in a short period of time.

So, you've got to acknowledge that, that you've got something really special there. Not many people have that ability to come through for their true self to kind of come through on that, you know? But, the reason that some of these other people are not converting into clients yet is not necessarily anything against you, it's certainly that they are more conservative or they're thinking about this. You've got now, like I wouldn't even look at it as... How can you deploy a longer term follow-up program with these people, that you're bonding with them, that you're bonding, that you're educating them and you're continuing to educate them, even though they haven't yet kind of taken that next step. What about over the next 12 months if you could, with a monthly newsletter, and podcast, and direct mail and building a bonding relationship with them.

Derrik: I shouldn't say that I-

Dean: Then they're more comfortable with you, yeah.

Derrik: Historically we haven't, but within the last couple of weeks, what we've been doing is with that total past participant list sending out new financial planning or blog articles and as of this coming Saturday, now I'm putting in that super signature at the end it.

Dean: I was just going to say, we need to think about what your super signature is going to be, what your options could be. What are the cookies that we talk about that are going to let people raise their hand, that they can move forward here. What are the offers that you can say, when you're ready, here's the three ways I can help you. What are those three ways.

Derrik: Well, the three that I have now, the three that'll be going out is, the first would be, the book, the 90-Minte Book.

Dean: And what's your book going to be called?

Derrik: I haven't had my session with Susan yet, so I'm not sure.

Dean: Okay, great.

Derrik: Yeah, just getting started. So, right now, it's just get a copy of our soon-to-be-released book. Number two is what I'm calling the Social Security Optimizer. So that would be a session... It could be done either in-office or it could actually just be done remotely where they provide their dates of birth and social security benefits and we create a report that shows them different ways of maximizing social security. That's something that I've put in the super signature. It's a little bit of a foresees situation, where I've done my commitment but eventually I'm going to be forced to create what this is. But that would be a little bit of a…

Dean: Do you have the software?

Derrik: Yeah, I've got something. The three things that I was kind of looking for would be the, the first one would be like no risk easiest. Second one would kind of be the bridge that would be a little bit of a commitment in that if you provide a little bit of information but we're maybe not even in the office and then the third is the blueprint to financial success which is the strategic coach unique process.

Dean: The key to financial success and what is that? Describe that to me, how you would articulate that for somebody?

Derrik: So that's a five step process that we use for retirement planning. So, the first step is the clarity conversation, which helps understand their dangers, opportunities, strengths and financial goals. And the second step is test today, and that's stress testing their current plan against their goals, and the third step is outcome optimization where we look at areas of improvement and ways that they can bridge the gap between what isn't working in their current plan or what can be improved. Step four is build from the blueprint where you actually do the implementation of all of the pieces. And the fifth is review regularly where you're going back to that original plan and making sure they're on track.

Dean: Okay. So, this sounds like this is actually your during unit, unique process. This is what you do as you're during unit. So, what we're looking for is how are we going to trigger the conversation that people want to start. So if we use our real estate example, somebody who's a home buyer, the triggers, the thoughts, the things that are going to have to be completed in their mind before the process starts there is they may start the process by just wanting to go out and look at homes. That's one thought. They may be the kind of person that wants to really understand the whole process before they start making any moves, like they want to understand the whole home buying process and how everything works.

And there may be other people who want to get the money side of it figured out first, right? They want to maybe figure out how mortgages work and how much they can actually afford, and so every buyer is going to fit into one of those primary things, right? That's going to be the primary driver for it. So, what we do is try and wrap a very easy, seemingly just easy first step to accommodate that desire, right? So, the base desire is that they want to go and look at homes. Now, most real estate agents will take a situation where they'll say, if we can help you, if there's anything we can help you with, please feel free to give us a call and so it requires that people call up the real estate agent and say, "Hey, would you show me some homes", right, we are expecting them to take the initiative.

But, if we agree that that's going to be one of the triggers, and we make it easy for people who want to look at homes to feel comfortable taking that step, we, instead of just letting them take the initiative, we bundle it up and say, join us for a daily tour of homes. We do home tours every day at 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock. And so that makes it okay. It doesn't feel like they're asking somebody to go out of their way for them. It's a mechanism. Oh! We can go on one of these tours. The next one that we look at, remember I mentioned people may want to know about the process, so we look at it and say join us for a home-buyer workshop. We do home-buyer workshops on the first and third Thursdays of the month at the library and we spend two hours going through the entire home-buying process and answer all your questions, explaining everything so you have a great understanding of how it all works.

That's something that is available, right? It's something that you're accommodating for them. And then, with the money, the people who want to know how the money works, we offer a free home loan report to say we constantly monitor hundreds of different loan programs all across the country, to find the lowest down-payment loans, the lowest-monthly payment loans, the lowest interest-rate loans and the lowest total cost loans, and we can all find it together in our custom home loan report.

And so those are very easy, sounds like they're already going on, ways for people to take that next step. So, if we kind of take that parallel thinking here and apply it to the social security world, to the financial advisor, what would be the thought or the intermediate steps that people have to go in to a relationship with you? What's on their mind? What would trigger them? They want to know... I think that it's fair to say that they want to know exactly what they could get on social security.

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: Like they want to know the exact numbers, right and so when you talk about even this idea of a social security optimizer, is sounding like you're going to get them to think a new thought. But, a social security report, like your custom social security report, is going to show them what their social security benefit is going to be. It seems like the access to the thing that they don't know how to equally access, you know?

Derrik: Yeah, so they'll always have their social security benefits statement.

Dean: Yes.

Derrik: I think-

Dean: But, that doesn't show them all of their options, right? That doesn't show what their-

Derrik: It just shows three ages.

Dean: Yes, exactly. So you've got an opportunity to really show those different scenarios, right, to show what would happen at each of these stages.

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: That is going to be a very strong draw for people. It's kind of good for them to know because with the facts, they're going to be able to feel more confident in the decision, right?

Derrik: So, when you're talking about a social security report, are you referring just to letting them know what the amounts are at different ages?

Dean: I think that if you can make it seem sort of charged, neutral. Like, when you're saying... And it's all... It's very subtle, the way this works, right? I think when you say a social security options report sounds like it's factual and charged neutral, right? Whereas optimizer sounds like you're trying to, I won't say gain the system, or you're trying to convince them to do something different, you know? Do you understand what I mean by that?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: It's a very subtle thing. We don't want to have any kind of... We want to address the part of their mind that wants the facts, you know? Part of their mind wants to know the facts. They want to know what this situation is, you know?

Derrik: Yeah, that makes total sense.

Dean: And that makes a difference, you know, when you start to think about the way these play out. So, we want to look at that and see how can we make that seem like something that's available, they just don't have access to it. You're saying there's social security options, we have software and direct access to lay out your social security options in detail, at every age. Not just the three that are presented on your statement, you know?

Derrik: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Yep.

Derrik: Sometimes I worry that if I focus just on social security alone that people won't get the-

Dean: Yeah, that's not... It's just the gateway, okay? Like, it's literally how you start the conversation, because, now you're going to then take the conversation that leads to the next conversation, which is, okay so if you do it at 70, then this is what you're going to end up with every month, what's the bigger picture here? How is that as far as, does that get you to where you want to be? And nobody's going to be able to live 100 percent on their social security. That's not your client. The person who say, well they need to get to ten thousand a month and you're showing them that their social security's going to get them to three thousand a month, so how are we going to bridge this gap, right? Now, we've got... Now you're involved in a conversation that's part of the bigger picture.

Derrik: So, for the class participants, would you-

Dean: Yeah.

Derrik: Maybe recommend that, instead of the call to action being the full blown strategy session, just the small next step of the social security options?

Dean: Well-

Derrik: Or are you thinking more in terms of people who are already in the tunnel?

Dean: I want to hear more about what maybe the next step is. Like, that's one. You know, just like I said, with the home buyers, some of whom want to look at homes, some of them want to learn the process and some of them want to get the money straightened out before we even go and start looking at homes and get out hopes all up, I want to make sure that we're looking at homes we can afford. And other people, they're not worried about the money or the... They want to go out and look at homes. They only deal with the money part of it once they fall in love with the house. Right? So some people are naturally leaning towards one way or another, you know? So, what I was curious about was what are those equivalents in your world, right?

So, I think that's certainly one. Because we started with the social security to really know their social security options report is a great charged neutral thing that anybody would want to have, right? I would love to have that, to know exactly what I'm dealing with, you know? Help me make sense of making my choice. That's one step.

But what else? What other type of things, what other kind of conversations would come up? I think that the stress test idea of how's my current portfolio going to stand up or how long is my money going to last, I mean that's really the question they want to ask, right? And really, how much is enough, that's the underlying question of it all, right?

Derrik: Do you feel like the portfolio stress test is a charge neutral as well?

Dean: Yeah, I'm wondering how could we use the words stress... How could we take stress... What are some other words than that? So, when I'm making these sort of... When I'm laying these out, one of the things that I'll do is block off some time, block off a 50 minute focus finder and I'll take a yellow pad or a journal and I'll create a word palette that has all of the words and phrases that might be something that I can draw from in this. And so, stress test, that's one thing, but if we really think about the questions that people have, you know? Like, if you think about what they're really asking with this is how long will my money last or what's the... You know? What's the outcome of the stress test when you do it with people? How do you do it and what's the outcome of it?

Derrik: So that would give you the age that your current investments with your current social security election would run out.

Dean: Okay, right. So, that I think is the... There's different ways to articulate that, and I think that that with some time spent in a word palette might be... There might be some words that come up with that that might be a unique process for you, you know? Because everybody... Stress test is kind of a thing that-

Derrik: Investment longevity reports?

Dean: Yes, exactly. Along that line. But what's a word for when you look at it that you're... When am I going to run out of money? And when you're doing the word palette, you want to use the real words and the thoughts and what's going on in somebody's mind. What is the phrases that they're saying to themselves, you know?

Derrik: Yeah.

Dean: And that could be an interesting thing, you know? Surprise is another... I did some work with financial advisors. We did a book called How Much Is Enough, and one of the things that we did with the postcard for that, the word palette that we came up with, and I'm going from memory here but I think it was, three avoidable surprises that de-rail even the most cautious retirement plan. And every word of that is loaded with great emotional value, you know? There's three, so you don't know what these are. Three surprises that de-rail even the most cautious retirement plan. And cautious versus conservative and surprises versus mistakes. You know?

So, a lot of times people would say, three mistakes that even conservative investors make, is really too... That's a different thing, right? Surprises is a neutral, nobody's at fault kind of word, and de-rail is a great emotional word for something going off track, and cautious is a better word than conservative in that situation, right? Because even conservatives or people would consider themselves cautious, that's a great thing, you know?

So, I would look at the language around that stress test as one great option, you know? And I would save your unique process, I would save the blueprint to actually the next step, right? Because the goal of next thing would be to get people engaged with you on your next step, you know?

Derrik: If I circle back to the direct mail, one point that I'm not sure where we're going is, are you sure that there really should be one single type of direct mail that just has the class call to action-

Dean: So now we'll go all the way back because we've talked about multiple things here. What I was just talking about was in your communicating to people in profit activator three. So, those are your profit activator four offers. Your profit activator four offers are the options, your social security options report, and your how long until your money runs out kind of test, you know? The surprise test.

And that was one of the things we did with the, we'll put your portfolio to the surprise test and that's kind of an interesting thing. How would you do? What would happen if you had some need for long-term care? Are you prepared for that? That's the surprise that might come up and hurt people, right? Those kinds of things where you're looking at those.

But, when we go back to profit activator two, the thing that we want to realize here is that by offering a book, you know, if you were to offer the book to people instead of the workshop as the first step, what you'll find is that instead of getting three-quarters of a percent or one percent, you'll get two or three times as many people who will raise their hand, because there are five thousand people that you're mailing to, 50 of them want the information and are available on Tuesday night. And there's probably 150 people who want the information but are not available on Tuesday night. And so, the people who want the information and are available on Tuesday night are a subset of the 150.

So, that's my recommendation, is to in profit activator two, step back from the workshop, offer the book, and then immediately invite the people who ask for the book to come for the workshop.

Derrik: Okay.

Dean: You see what I mean?

Derrik: Yeah, the first call-

Dean: Yeah, so let's say you get 150 people who respond for the book and you immediately invite those 150 people to the workshop and you get 30 percent of them to come to the workshop, you haven't missed out on anything, right? The people who are open to a workshop are still within that 150 people.

Derrik: You don't think that the 4900 and some other people who may have wanted to go to an upcoming workshop but would not necessarily respond to the book-

Dean: Yeah, I think... I'm saying that two to three more people will respond for the book than the workshop.

Derrik: I was just saying, if only 150 people get the invitation, doesn't that leave out thousands and thousands of people who might have come to the-

Dean: No, I'm saying that the people who would have come to the workshop are going to be within the 150 that ask for the book. You're not missing out, if you're on the right tone, they're going to read the postcards, they say oh I want that. If they say, oh well I'm not going to get it because it's so easy to get as a book. You know what I mean? It's the other way around that people are going to see it, they want it but I'm not available or I don't want to come to a workshop on Tuesday to get this.


Derrik: Okay.

Dean: But I do want the information. It makes it so much easier for people that way, you know?

Derrik: Got it. So we don't necessarily need one mailing for a class, a different mailing for the book. We could do one single mailing for the book-

Dean: Right.

Derrik: And then the actual opt into the book is what rolls into the class.

Dean: That's exactly right, that's exactly right. So then we start engaging with those people right away, and invite them to come to the workshop.

Derrik: Interesting.

Dean: Yeah. And that's a great process for engaging, you know? And that way, what you get from that is you've got this asset. You've got this opportunity now to engage with these people over a long period of time. Keep that in your mind that, let's look at it that we're going to bond with these people over the course of a year. We're going to send them a newsletter and we're going to continue to educate and motivate them. And every month when you send out the newsletter, you're going to say, join us for the workshop and come to the workshop, you know?

Derrik: Because my mailing costs are going to be much less with a postcard rather than the trifle, do you think it could make sense to put some of that savings into Facebook ads?

Dean: It could be, absolutely. Yeah.

Derrik: Excellent.

Dean: You could do that same thing. So, why don't you re-cap me. We talked about a lot. We've got an hour and fifteen minutes already, so why don't you re-cap what we got from that. But it's such a meaty subject and you've got a lot of opportunity here and you've got... You know, the good news is, to your credit, you're coming from a system that already, every time you put in a dollar, it's putting out eight or nine dollars immediately in the first year and is creating an annuity for you of half of that every year thereafter. So, you've done a great job on that and now we've got some great opportunities to really maximize that.

Derrik: Yeah. I think my first takeaway is, I need to give up the worry of sending out a direct mail piece that doesn't highlight the class but realize that the strategy of something that's very easy to respond to will help me to build possibly even higher class attendance.

Dean: Definitely, even. And I wouldn't even... Don't worry about the class. The numbers that you're worried about are the class, what I'm looking at is that what's the total yield over the next 12 months from one mailing to these five thousand homes. That's where we're really focused on. So, now you get the opportunity to communicate with 150 people who were motivated by this social security message. That's where we get the bond with that group of people.

Derrik: Yeah. And I think my second takeaway is I need to be more strategic in that my next steps for those people need to be much more charge neutral and compelling to bring more people into the conversation rather than maybe trying to be clever or-

Dean: Right.

Derrik: Bringing people to... They want their blood pressure taken and I'm telling them to take all their clothes off and the doctor will be in soon.

Dean: That's right, yeah, yeah. This won't hurt at all, take your clothes off. That's funny. Yeah, we just need to roll up the sleeve a little right now.

Derrik: Makes sense.

Dean: Yeah, well that's awesome. I think you've really got a great foundation here and your book is going to make a big difference.

Derrik: Yeah, the book in the next week and I'll be starting the email mastery so I think that that will also help the engagement process of this building list over the months.

Dean: Yeah, that's perfect. You're making all the right moves.

Derrik: Well, I appreciate all of your input and all of the insights that you're bringing to make it easier.

Dean: Thanks, Derek. Well then, I'll be in touch with you really soon then if you're going to be part of mastery, I'll talk to you and we'll be able to keep the momentum going.

Derrik: Yeah. Fantastic. Talk to you next week then.

Dean: Awesome, thanks Derek.

Derrik: All right. Bye.

Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode, and this is interesting for anybody who's doing workshops or doing things that are sort of a harder first step for people. We talked all about the wisdom of opening up the gates at the beginning here by making a softer offer, giving as many people as possible the opportunity to raise their hand and start the conversation, and then really talking about the value over the next 12 months of bonding with those people and consistently presenting them with things that are going to educate them, and motivate them and then keeping our super signature offers right in front of them.

So, I hope you really got a lot out of that episode and I look forward to bringing more just like that for you. If you'd like to keep the conversation going here, you can go to more cheese less whiskers dot com. You can download a copy of the more cheese less whiskers book and if you'd like to be a guest on the show, so we can hash some evil schemes for you, just go to more cheese less whiskers dot communication and click on the be a guest link. That way, I'll be able to see that you'd like to come on the show, we can spend a whole hour hashing some evil schemes for you.

If you'd like to see how the profit activators all fit for your business, you can go to profit activator score dot com and take the profit activator scorecard. You can see exactly where you stand, where the opportunities are in your business and along with it comes a copy of the breakthrough DNA book and the profit activator scorecard book, so those are great ways for you to take the next steps.

Look forward to talking to you next time on More Cheese, Less Whiskers.