Ep060: Janice Berthold

Today we have Janice Berthold with us, an insurance specialist in California, where she works with large companies, companies with 200 plus employees, who have large workers' comp insurance premiums.

She helps them not only lower the cost of their premiums, but to change the way they approach worker's comp, from safety and risk assessment, through to creating a great environment. She’s had great success, and this year, a 100% close rate with the people she’s spoken with.

As you'll hear, she really knows her stuff. She knows how to help people and she gets amazing results.

This is a great bonus when you’re looking at a new marketing campaign. Knowing with 100% confidence that you're able to get an outstanding result for someone, really gives you the confidence to turn up the volume in the before unit.

We talked about ways to amplify what she's doing today and take it from a one-to-one approach, going out to people individually, to a strategy where we can pick a pool of 1000 of her ideal CFOs and create a marketing campaign to get the ones that are in the market to raise their hand.

This is a great episode and really highlights the different jobs done by Profit Activator 2 and 3.


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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 060

Dean: Janice.

Janice: Hi, Dean, Jan Berthold here.

Dean: How are you?

Janice: Good. Thank you, I'm really excited about this. I just left a five star rating on your podcast on iTunes.

Dean: Oh, perfect. I love it, thank you.

Janice: Yeah.

Dean: Well, I'm excited to get to spend the whole hour here, just hatching some evil schemes for you. Tell me about what our objective is here, what you're working on right now. I know you're doing some things that are already working, and things that you can kind of expand on, so why don't you just tell me the whole story, and we'll get going.

Janice: Okay, so my focus is mostly on the Before part. I would rate my During part and my After part as a 10.

Dean: I saw that, yeah.

Janice: Yeah. What I do, is I use no-cost risk assessments to find out what's driving companies' workers' comp costs, and then I implement a plan to drive down their claims. I've been doing it for 25 years, and I just love what I do. I feel like I really make a difference. I have a 100% closing ratio this year, so every single one I do this assessment with becomes a client.

Dean: Oh, congratulations.

Janice: Yeah, so it's working. I guess what I'd like to do, is just get more qualified people to talk with. It's hard, because I've focused on companies that are paying $300,000 to $2 million a year in workers' comp premiums, so that's pretty high, it's not going to be every company.

I also focus on working with CFOs and HR people, and they are crazy busy. They're getting calls all the time from brokers saying, "I can save you money on your premium." The other brokers are mostly looking at it from a commoditized standpoint about saving money. Getting my message out there and differentiating myself is the real key.

Dean: Tell me about how you are different. I'm not entirely certain how the whole situation works, so I think it'd be helpful to explain to me what the context of all of it is.

Janice: Oh, okay. Most brokers call companies 90 to 120 days before they renew, and say, "I can save you money on your premium," but I had an experience that was a little bit different. I met with a CFO once, and I was really excited, because I had an insurance market that nobody else had. I kind of blabbered on, blah, blah, blah, about how I could save him money. He stopped me short. He said, "You know, insurance is a pain in the blankety blank, but if we don't get our experience mod down for workers' comp ..." in California, they have a way to rank companies, and they pay according to this ranking.

He had 137% experience mod, so it's all public information. I knew it when I met with him. He was paying 37% more than the average company in California. He was paying almost three times what he could be paying, if he could get to the lowest experience mod. He says, "You know, insurance is a pain in the blankety blank, but if somebody doesn't help me get my experience mod down, I'm not even going to be in business."

It was an aha moment for me. I didn't get the business, but I went away, I became certified as a professional workers' comp advisor, went back to him a few months later, and took all these things that I'd learned in this course, and did a risk assessment, and then came back to him with an implementation plan that included an on-site triage service that eliminated 85% of his claims, of complete return to work program, helped him with safety meetings, checklists, audits, train the trainer, and basically changed the whole culture of the company.

His experience mod went from 137% down to like 77%. He was paying over $1 million dollars in premium. We renewed it at 724,000, because it takes like three years to make this impact. This year, his premium went from $1 million to $335,000, and we put him in a captive program, where he's not paying the insurance company anymore, he's just paying himself. His company is so much safer, his employees are happier.

That's what I do, and I basically ... I only do maybe six to 10 of these a year, because they take like 20 to 30 hours to do it, and I do one-on-one interviews with all the key employees of the company. I do the CEO last, because I usually share very valuable information with him on the strengths of the company, the things that people are excited about, and the things that they're worried about. It's really valuable, and I end up building relationships with people at all levels of the company, so if someone leaves, there's other people there that I know. I typically have like 100% retention ratio, too.

Dean: Yeah, wow, that's very exciting. You sound very passionate about it, which is awesome. It reminds me, Jan, of a gentleman that we did a book with in Toronto. He did OSHA compliance, and safety stuff. I had a conversation with him, and he was equally passionate about workplace safety. It's very much like you said, commoditized, where people look at that kind of stuff as a requirement. They're going to do what they need to do to be in compliance, and ...

But I asked him, I said, "What would be a dream come true? What is it that you can do for people if they would just get out of the way, and let you do your thing?" He started outlining how actually, it can ... just the way you described it. You're talking about the other side of it. It can lower their cost of insurance, it can lower the claims, it can create a happier work environment, all of those things. We did a book called Return on Safety. It was about turning workplace safety into a competitive advantage and bottom line profits.

Janice: Oh, I love it.

Dean: Yeah, what that does, is that raises, that elevates, the conversation to another level, where it's not just a expense that we want to get handled at the lowest possible cost, but as an investment that we can get a return on, you know?

Janice: Yes.

Dean: And measurable. Like you're talking about taking somebody from $1 million a year in premiums, to $335,000 a year, it's a pretty major thing. It's a pretty big return on the investment of spending time with you. Taking that kind of approach, like if they knew, or thought about things the way that you think about things, what would be the title of the book that your ideal prospect would definitely want to read? That they would want to own?

Janice: Well, it's basically what you just said, this Return on Safety. I love this turning the workplace safety into a competitive advantage, and ... What was the last part?

Dean: And bottom line profits.

Janice: Yeah. I mean, that's very similar to what I'm doing. I'll have to get a copy of his book. Maybe I just give him his book, although I have been thinking about doing a 90 minute book as well.

Dean: That's what we did with him, right. That's what we did.

Janice: That's what I'm thinking. Has that been helpful for him?

Dean: Well, what ended up happening for him, is that he's had to hire more people to expand, and he's booked up like way in advance, because now he's being invited to speak at different industry events, and people are coming up to him saying, "When can you install this in our business?" Now they're looking at it as something different than the commodity of getting their OSHA compliance handled, you know?

Janice: Yeah.

Dean: It makes a big difference. I think if you ... That's why I brought it up. It sounds like really if you're focused on something that is attractive at the CFO level, typically who's handling compliance stuff would be at the HR level, or something that just getting the compliance of it. When you're talking about something that can affect the PML, that's where you want to be, kind of thing. That's different than being positioned as a commodity.

Janice: Yes, right.

Dean: Tell me about your assessment, and what that ... how do you get that in front of people right now?

Janice: Okay, so you mean what's my marketing approach now?

Dean: Yeah, what's working right now?

Janice: Okay, so I've been focused a lot on LinkedIn. What I do, is I find prospects on LinkedIn using search criteria for which industries I know are paying a lot for workers' comp, and I'm trying to stay in the Bay Area, because I don't like to travel too much, and companies that have a size like 200 to 2,000 employees. All of that is ... you're able to do on LinkedIn.

Then I have a company that uses employees in the Philippines that send out a personal invitation on LinkedIn inviting them to connect. They can only send 50 a day, and of those 50, there's maybe seven to 10 new connections that I get. Some of them are good connections, and some aren't. When we get a connection, then we send a nine word email, "Nice to connect with you, are you looking for ways to improve your workers' comp, or benefits programs?" Then if they reply back, I would ask, "How many employees do you have?"

In the mean time, we're also checking, because we can find out what their experience mod is. We can see how much roughly that they're paying, what kind of industry they have, where they're located. Quite frankly, I'm really not getting that great of a response on this. I have almost 5,000 connections on LinkedIn, and most of my really good prospects are coming from referrals, or people I already know, like clients ...

Another great thing about LinkedIn, is you can go into a company that you want to target, and you can see who you know that knows the CFO there, or the HR person there, and then get an introduction. I can go to the person that's my client, and say, "Look, I was looking at approaching so and so. I see you're connected with them. Is it okay if I mention that we work together?" And they always say, "Sure." Then I can send an email out, and ask to connect with them, or just ask to talk with them.

That's probably where most of my business comes. I'm kind of in a lull right now. I usually try to have four to five companies that I'm working on, and right now I have maybe two. Maybe I'm overacting maybe, it's just a low time, but ...

Dean: Push the panic button, yeah, yeah.

Janice: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm having a really good year, but I really enjoy doing this, and I'd like to help more people, especially non-profits. The other thing is, I have a donor fund where I can actually pay extra money to help them bring in someone like your person that wrote the OSHA book, and he can actually do a lot of the work, like be their boots-on-the-ground safety person. I can actually pay for that, because I have this fund that I have to donate anyway, so I might as well be donating it in a place where it's really going to make a big difference, and help me as well.

Dean: Tell me a bit about that, so if we would be ... That would be the target audience of a non-profit, is that what you're talking about?

Janice: Yeah, large non-profits are a great target for me. A lot of my new business comes from them, because they don't have a lot of resources. They can't afford to have a safety person, and a lot of their people have big hearts. They're doing it because they love the mission of the organization, but they aren't always the best business people. I can really come in there, and really help them. They're so grateful, and you can feel so good about what you're doing at the same time.

Dean: Yeah. How would that look, if you were to identify those people? Let's look at how we could focus on that. How many of those would there be, if we're looking at narrowing your target audience to non-profits? How many potential candidates would there be for you?

Janice: Well, there's probably only about I'd say 30 to 50, because our company is the largest rider of non-profits already, so I can't work with people that we're already working with. The other thing is, not all of them are big enough, because this is a really high-end exercise. Like I said, it takes 20 to 40 hours for me to do this, so it has to be a company that's paying 300,000 or more in premium. There's probably maybe 20, 25 that I'm targeting right now. Maybe there's some more out there.

Dean: I'm wondering if your audience are ... you really know who these people are, you know? That's really an advantage.

Janice: Yes.

Dean: But you can also afford then, to take a longer approach with this. Is there a-

Janice: Oh, I do.

Dean: Yeah, yeah. Is there a lifecycle of ... Does somebody's policy have to be expiring, or how does-

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Dean: So explain that to me.

Janice: Yeah, the beauty of this, is it's like an annuity model. You get a client one year, and they renew at the same premium, or more, whatever, the next year. Every year, they're required by law to have this. If you do a good job, you're going to continue to have a great client.

Dean: That's awesome. You get the same percentage on the renewals as well?

Janice: Yes, yes, right.

Dean: Wow, so it's a nice annuity for you, too.

Janice: Yeah, it is, yeah.

Dean: Uh-huh. When you look at it right now, walk me through your LinkedIn approach right now, of how that works if you send the invitation to somebody, and then they connect, and then your nine word email is right into asking them if they're interested in ways to save on their workman's comp.

Janice: Yeah, basically. I just started what I was ... The welcome message before was, "Nice to connect. What are your main challenges now? I have a large network, so I may be able to help." I really wasn't getting a good response on that, probably 2%. I just started changing ... adding the nine word email, and I'm still not getting a great response, maybe I'm getting 3%. Mostly they're not qualified, they're smaller companies.

Dean: Right.

Janice: The only thing that really seems to work is calling people. I hate to call people, because you're always interrupting them, and it just seems so ... I don't know, it just seems like it's such a professional thing that I'm doing, but quite frankly, calling is the only thing that works.

Dean: I think unless there's some way, which beats that approach, is how to get them to call you. That's really the bigger thing. Often that's really about taking a leadership position, right? Where somewhere between saying, "What are your biggest challenges, if there's anything?" You're expecting them to take the initiative, and tell you what they need, so that you can be responsive, right? You can jump into action there.

The difference, is if there's something where you could really anticipate what they might want, and offer them something that would get them down the road, kind of thing, that would be interesting to them. Whereas when you're saying, "Are you looking to save money on your workman's comp?" It sounds like a loaded kind of question, in a way, right? Where the implication is, "Oh, I'm going to now be talking to a sales person who's going to pitch me on a lower price, or insurance," or whatever.

Janice: Yeah, well actually what I'm saying is, "Are you looking for ways to improve your workers' comp or benefits programs?"

Dean: Okay. That would be again, sort of a loaded question as an initial thing, whereas if you were to say, "Hey, thanks for connecting. I have ..." If you're saying like that, "I wrote a book," and have the title of the book, "Can I send you a copy?" Or, "Would you like me to send you a copy?" Would be a different sort of-

Janice: Yeah, I like that.

Dean: Right, where you're showing something there. Or, are you a broker?

Janice: Yeah.

Dean: There's a marketplace of insurance providers that you select the right one for them, kind of thing?

Janice: Yes, that's exactly what we do. I have a whole team that does that.

Dean: Okay, so one of the things that if you can shift towards market data, might be a nice shift, right? Like if you offered somebody either the August 2017 report on California workman's compensation insurance rate. Something that if somebody's in the market, and shopping for insurance, might be interested in having access to, just even to see that there's a sense of, if I knew what the options were, that would be something that would be valuable.

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. I'm mentioning that when I do the connection, that I've noticed a few things when I was researching about their company. "I hope you're okay with me sharing some insights, let's connect." That's when they connect. Then I was saying ... I was offering to show them where they are compared to their peers, but again, I'm not really getting a good response on that.

Dean: There's a difference between ... and I want to be clear on the distinction here, because that's when you get it. If you get it, you'll understand. What you're offering to do for somebody sounds like you're going to do a custom piece a work for them, right? That you're going to have to research and do something, which sounds like they're indebting themselves, right? That they're getting into ... Nobody wants anybody to go out of their way, right?

It's the same ... We always talk about it like in a hospitality situation. You know if I say ... You come to my office, or you come to my house, "Would you like a cup of coffee?" More often than not, people will say, "Well, are you having one? If you're boiling the kettle I'll have one, but don't do anything special for me." Right? Because we don't want people to go out of their way for us.

The thing about this market data, like giving them access to something that you've already done, that would be valuable for them to voyeur in on, that would be perhaps an advantage for them. We've used this in lots of different ways. We use it for our real estate agents all the time, right? We'll offer the free August 2017 report on Winter Haven lake front house prices, which if you own a lake front house, that sounds like I would love to have that information.

We've used it with financial advisors, offering the August 2017 report on UK annuities, which sounds like, if I'm making a decision, and there's a marketplace for things, for me to be able to look at and see objectively, not subjectively, objectively, what is out there, that's going to be valuable for me, right? I trust that. It doesn't sound like there's any possibility to stack the deck subjectively on things for me, you know?

Janice: Right.

Dean: It sounds like there's less obligation to that too. It sounds like you've already done it, and then they'd like access to that information.

Janice: Right, okay, so you're saying it's something that I already have, so it doesn't sound like I'm trying to stack the deck. They can look at it objectively. Which do you think would be better, a book or the market data?

Dean: I think both, because the market data would be something that you could offer. Let's just say the non-profit right now, go into the regular marketplace, because it seems like there are more of those companies that are ... there's a bigger market for them for you. If you could identify say 100 of these companies, or how many would there be in the Bay Area that would meet your criteria of 200 to 300 employees and 300,000 in premiums?

Janice: That's a good question. I would say there's probably over 1,000.

Dean: Yeah, so if we look at this, and this is where it's so valuable for you, right? There's 1,000 people, and the way you talk about these things, is at a CFO level. That's the conversation you're having, it's not an HR thing. You're going right to the CFO level, that if you had this list of 1,000 CFOs, and you were to mail a post card offering that ... that seems like the official thing, right?

I said California, but is that the marketplace? How would you title that report? What would be the most relevant? If you offered the August 2017 report on California workman's comp insurance premiums?

Janice: Yeah, I don't think that's going to be as compelling for them as a book, or offering.

Dean: Well, it might be. What would it be? Let's just get the facts right here first, and I'll tell you how the book can work into this.

Janice: Okay.

Dean: Yeah, what would be the right language, if we were going to call it something? We've got the August 2017 report on California workers'-

Janice: There has been rate reductions that have been published, so I could send out I guess, the current rate reductions. I do have this report I can get from companies, that will show their class code, and what various companies are paying ... are charging for workers' comp. The only problem with that, is it's not always reliable, and it's not always ... And sometimes it shows companies that will quote their premium, and then you find out when you go to that company, that they don't.

I would hate to be charged with bait-and-switch by offering something that can't really deliver. Besides, when you talk about premium, you're just commoditizing it again, you know? I'm trying to get away from commoditizing it.

Dean: I get it, but that's where people start. That's what they're thinking initially. The data is the data, right? The whole point is just that they're starting this, and then you can steer the conversation towards the next step on it, you know? Where now, the book then, accompanies the report.

What we do on the real estate side, is we offer that report on San Francisco condos, or North Beach condo prices, or whatever the ... even specific areas, right? That's what gets people to raise their hand, but then along with the market data, then we send along with it, a book on how to sell your house for top dollar fast.

Even though they weren't responding out of a ... asking for information about how to sell their house, they were responding in a way that indicated to us that they're likely to be somebody who is looking to sell their house in the next 12 months, right? Excuse me. In the same way, what we're looking is out of those 1,000 people, to identify the people who are in the process of shopping their insurance premiums, right?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Or researching their options. That opening is the place where now we have a chance to start a dialogue, to meet them where they are right now. Then it broadens the conversation, because you're able to show them, "Listen, it's not just about the premiums. It's not just about that. The rates ... here's a different way to think about it, and then whenever you're ready, here are three ways that we can help you." Where you've got whatever the next steps are. If you've got your risk assessment situation as one of those ways, that's something that people can move forward on, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), so you're saying to identify the companies, mail a post card offering some kind of a report on workers' comp rates, and then if they ... And then what do they do? Do they email ... based on the post card, this is a ... Do they call you? They have to do something, right?

Dean: No, they would go to a landing page where you would have a place for them to put their name, and their email address, and their mailing address. That way, they're identifying themselves, right?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: That way they are requesting this, or they could call a pre-recorded message, and leave their name and address to get it by mail, or get it by email. Now you've got out of the 1,000, you've got the opportunity to then start a dialogue with the people who ask for it. This is received really well in corporate environments.

We had a situation where a company that was doing mainframe outsourcing for Fortune 1000 level companies were looking for a way to start those conversations, and we did the report ... We do a quarterly report in the first quarter 2017 report, on mainframe outsource prices. It is just a conversation starter. It's like just getting people to raise their hand. It's like you know that anybody who asks for that is in the market for ...

It's no different than you're asking somebody's question, "Are you looking for ways to lower your costs?" Or however you phrased it in your nine word email. This is just a way of getting them to raise their hand, that that is what they're interested in, right? Who would want that information? Somebody who wants to make sure their ... to check their rate, because they know what they're paying.

They want to check it against what the market is, just to make sure that they're in line, just to see if there's a big discrepancy there, and that they're either ... they're maybe second guessing, or they may be actively shopping. If you look at it, at any given time, how many of those 1,000 CFOs have on their to-do list right now, "Look into our workman's comp?"

Janice: Yeah, unfortunately most of them are just staying with their current program, because right now the rates are in a free fall, so their rates are going down, so there's no urgency to really look. Unless for some reason they're unhappy with their current broker, most of them are just happy with the status quo, and they've got so many other things on their plate that are more important than this, that they're just not really interested in working on this, because their rates are going down anyway. Even if they stay with a broker that's not doing anything, even if they're having claims, it still is not impacting them as much as other things on their plate.

Dean: Uh-huh. How many out of the 1,000 would you say, I mean, just a few?

Janice: Would be interested out of 1,000?

Dean: Yeah. I mean, just thinking about how many are going to ... I mean, how often do people make that change?

Janice: Well, they make it once a year, and-

Dean: Yes, but what's happening, I mean, at any point ... You look at GEICO, for instance, has just ... their whole thing is that you could save 15% on your car insurance. That's the message that they get constantly in front of people, because they know that at any given time, there are people whose car insurance is coming up, right?

You look at it that for a certain degree, a certain amount of people ... and this is just one of several approaches that you could take with the same 1,000 people. I like the idea of ... you've got such a high ticket item, like it's very valuable for you when you get a new client, that it's worth ... Well, when you think about it, to spend $750 or $800 on mailing 1,000 post cards every month to those 1,000 people, is a no-brainer, because it's just ... You know, it might cost you $5,000 or $6,000 to do that for the entire year, because those 1,000 people are the 1,000 people who are going to be making that decision, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dean: Some of them are making it. I look at this as a being in the right place at the right time opportunity, that for some of them, they were just talking about this. This is going to make it easy for them to at least get their ducks in a row. If they are making that decision, CFOs are very fact driven people, right? Data. Having that knowledge, knowing that if they've got access to all the facts, that's going to help them guide and make the right decision. Facts are different than opinions, right?

Janice: Right.

Dean: When you look at it, leading with being the gold mine that they would love to discover, if they're looking for this, right? If everybody's happy, and it's not even on their radar, and they've got lots of other things going on, you have to convince them that this is something that they want to do.

Now, and that's an uphill sort of situation, right? When we look at it, that there are a certain number of people who they are looking for ways to save money on their things. They are considering switching brokers, or insurance providers. They are going to have to research the market and find these things. This would be a very valuable piece of information for them showing up at just the right time.

Janice: Where do you get the list?

Dean: Well, how would you know that there were 1,000 of them? I mean-

Janice: I'm just guessing, I'm just guessing.

Dean: Oh, okay.

Janice: Yeah, I don't really ... All the ones that I have are people that I've identified that would be in that target range, that I know someone who could introduce me. I've just been going one-by-one trying to get those introductions, and that's what seems to work the best. I've not tried any kind of a mass marketing type of thing before.

Dean: We can get you a list of the CFOs at this level of company. That's all easy information. You want CFOs with 200 plus employees, and that's ... and within a radius of San Francisco, that's an easy get.

Janice: Yeah, and with a certain SIC code, because if they're a software company, they could have 5,000 employees, and their premium wouldn't even…

Dean: Yeah, you're getting carpal tunnel or whatever. That's it, yeah.

Janice: Right, they wouldn't have a need, they wouldn't be having any claims, so. Yeah, if you could tell me how to do that, I'd be willing to try that.

Dean: Yeah, no problem. That's an easy thing. I just think that that opportunity would be certainly one way of reaching the people who it's already on their mind, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Dean: Because that's the thing. Out of the 1,000 of them, at any given time, it's crossing their mind, or they're definitely going to do something about it. I would find it inconceivable that of 1,000 of them, that none of them are going to change their providers in the next 12 months. That seems unlikely, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative). You would send this post card once a month, every month, just so it's repeating.

Dean: That's what I would love to do, is if you could do that, where you're doing that. I would even look for other opportunities to do that, too. If you could do some ads on LinkedIn, or do some ads in Northern California CFO Magazine, or whatever. There are other complications that you can get in front of like that, you know? To have that kind of info.

Then part of the thing, that gets you to Profit Activator Two. They raise their hand. Now as soon as they raise their hand, now they're in Profit Activator Three, where we need to educate and motivate them, and make an offer in Profit Activator Four that gets them into your During Unit. It sounds like your assessment is one of those things that would be a next step.

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah, it's kind of a no-brainer. I mean, it doesn't cost them anything, it takes very little of their time. It's kind of the Cyrus McCormick, you know, if I don't get results, they don't have to change brokers, they don't have to pay anything, they can end up looking like a hero with very little downside. By the time I go through this whole process, you know, 20, 30 hours, I've done one-on-one interviews with their key executives, I come back with this whole analysis in a beautiful bound black book, I've done 100 times more than their current broker has done.

When I do the claims analysis, the current broker usually ends up looking like a doofus, because he hasn't followed up on their claims to help close them out, hasn't done anything with their safety. Brokers, when you think about it, their incentive is to keep the premium high, because their commission is based on the premium, so they have no incentive to reduce the premium. Their incentive is to keep the premium as high as possible.

Dean: Yeah, very interesting, right? Knowing that, starting with the data is ... obviously now, that's even more valuable. Then part of the thing, is once somebody responds, now you've got an opportunity to send a series of newsletters to them, or reports to them, that show the different things that you're doing, right? That you're highlighting case studies, that you're breaking things down, sharing options, sharing what other people did, and all the while, offering them the next steps, right? Do you have any other next steps, aside from the risk assessment? What would be another kind of moving forward next step?

Janice: Well, I have newsletters, I have testimonials, I have case studies.

Dean: Yeah, well those are all things that you can use to educate and motivate people, but what would be opportunities for them to raise their hand and say, "Oh, I'd like that?" Like what we do on the real estate side, when somebody raises their hand and asks for the report on lake front house prices, that we know that the next step, they're either going to want to know how much their house is worth, or they're going to want to know what they should and shouldn't do to get the house ready to sell, or they might be just biding their time, and if you had a buyer, they would sell, but they're not ready to put it on the market yet. That would be kind of the scenarios of where people are at.

We have offers specifically for those situations, right? We have a pinpoint price analysis for the people who want to find out exactly what their house would sell for today. We have a room by room review, which shows people everything they should and shouldn't do to get their house ready to sell. If they're not ready to put their house on the market then we may be able to sell it without even putting it on the market, through our silent market, because we're always working with buyers, right? Those three things sound like they meet the different needs that people have, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), okay.

Dean: So what would be ... Yeah, is there anything that that reminds you, or stimulates thought wise?

Janice: Yeah, the biggest thing that I do, is I can do a claims review. They send me copies of their last three to four years of loss runs, and I do an analysis of what's driving their claims, which claims are still open that should be closed. You know, if it's slips and trips, cuts, I analyze all that, come back to them with a report, and that usually seals the deal right there, because they see the current broker has not been following up on their claims, or the claim has been on their loss run for three years, or I had one the other day that was a $85,000 claim, and it cost that company over $100,000 over three years. That claim did not move.

It's because if nobody's calling these claims adjusters at the insurance companies, the claims just go to the bottom, and they just sit there, and people stay off of work, and the company's just paying all this cost. That usually seals the deal right there. The other thing I do, is I give them a report that shows them what they're paying now, and what they could be paying with the lowest mod, and what the average company would be paying.

Dean: I love it, so that's great. There's your three things right there, a claims review, a risk assessment, and a ... whatever we would call that report.

Janice: We call it the ModMaster.

Dean: ModMaster report. That is a very, very well-rounded set of next steps for somebody. You can imagine now, the sequence would be that you've got these 1,000 names, we send a post card offering the August 2017 report on California workers' comp insurance premiums ... excuse me ... or whatever we would call that report, whatever's appropriate.

When they respond, we send them that report along with a book that outlines your whole philosophical approach to this, "And whenever you're ready, here are three ways we can help you with your ... wherever you're at. A claims review, we can do a risk assessment, or you can get a ModMaster report."

That seems like really well thought-out, and easy for people to respond, rather than sending people information, and sending them and say, "If there's anything we can do to help you, or if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out." All that stuff, we're being a leader right now. Packaging up the best information, and anticipating what that next step is going to be. I like that, you know?

Janice: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. It's just that I've never done this mass marketing type of thing. It's all been by referral only, and it's been hard to get people on the phone, because they're so busy. It's hard to get them, but you're right. If I could find the people who have the need, it's like the guy with a sword in his chest, and I'm the surgeon who can fix it. I mean, if I could get those people to raise their hand, then I can start a conversation and that would be good.

Dean: You're going to raise their hand with what limited knowledge they have. They may think that the way to get this under control is to lower our premiums. They may not be thinking that, "Well, if we can improve our mod, or reduce some of our risk, or be more efficient with our claim," or any of the things that you know to do, that's not what they're thinking initially.

If they knew what you know, they would be doing things differently, but they don't know that yet. The only way they know is, "At least if I could lower the premiums, that's going to be a step in the right direction." You kind of meet them where they are, right?

Janice: Yeah, so I'm kind of doing something like this. I have a company, the same company that sends out the invitations is also ... No, it's another company is doing a search engine optimization, and they've done it for one month, and they got dismal results. They're trying again, a new thing where it's, "Are you paying between 300,000 and 2 million in premiums? If so, you should ask us for our free assessment." But they haven't gotten any response on it.

Dean: Yeah, no, that's not ... When you're trying to convince people of something with limited information, it's not ideal, you know? We want to get a message in front of somebody that is going to appear like ... for them, you know? Are there situations where ... You just looked at it, but those 1,000 people, those 1,000 CFOs, that's a big opportunity for you.

Janice: Yeah, the other thing that I do in addition to the workers' comp, is I make sure they don't have gaps in insurance, or over insurance. I have a 125 point check list. I had one company where I did this assessment, picked up all their policies, reviewed them, found out they were paying insurance on a lease that they didn't have to pay for, because it was paid for by the landlord. I found all kinds of errors on their directors and officers liability, and ended up saving them 14% on their premiums. But again, it's a more of a professional approach, because again, if a CFO-

Dean: They wouldn't even know to ask for that, right? Because that didn't cross their mind. That's why you have to lower it-

Janice: No, that's another…

Dean: Yeah, you have to lower it to the level of what they know to actually look for, you know?

Janice: Right.

Dean: Yeah.

Janice: Yeah, because these CFOs, they have so much responsibility in a company, and if they have a claim that's not covered, it's not just catastrophic for their company, it's catastrophic for their career. They need to know what's covered, what's not covered, and then they can take it to the board, take it to the CEO, and that way if there's a claim that's not covered, they're off the hook. This is another service that I provide with that risk management assessment.

Dean: Absolutely. These guys are fact finders too. That's the thing, that having data, it's always better to have all the information. If you've compiled all that information together, that's going to be useful for them.

Janice: Yeah.

Dean: I like it.

Janice: Yeah. I'll definitely try it, I've tried everything else, so. I mean, I'm having a lot of success, obviously, 100% closing ratio, but I would just like to get more qualified prospects.

Dean: Yup, and I think that's the thing, is let's pick the right 1,000, and then move forward. It's just a matter of getting people to raise their hand so you can start a dialogue with them, you know?

Janice: Right.

Dean: Yeah. It's all very exciting, Jan. I think you've got some big opportunity there.

Janice: Yeah, I appreciate it. I feel like I'm really doing good stuff, and I get up every day and look forward to it, so.

Dean: That's awesome. Well, will you keep me posted here? I mean, when you put your thought to this, and get the report together, we can talk about that on Email Mastery, on one of our calls there. That would be great.

Janice: Okay, that'd be good. Then I-

Dean: Yeah, because this way we can start figure out the dialogue to it, you know?

Janice: Right, yeah. Then where do I get the 1,000 names of the people?

Dean: Oh, I'll tell you what, so yeah, I'll connect with you then, and I'll put you in the right direction for that as well.

Janice: Okay, that sound great. Then I will definitely look at the book, so I'm going to do that too.

Dean: Awesome, perfect.

Janice: Yeah, well thank you very much, that was very helpful, Dean. I really appreciate it.

Dean: That was fun, it went by so fast, didn't it?

Janice: I know, it did. It was great, very helpful.

Dean: Awesome. Well, thanks for being part of it. Thanks, Jan.

Janice: Thank you, and have a great weekend.

Dean: Okay, you too. Bye-bye.

There we have it. I really got a lot out of that conversation. I think a couple of my takeaways, is when she's crystal clear on who the target audience is, with the CFOs, by being able to identify 1,000 of these people, and being able to send a simple post card offering market data that can start the conversation, now we're in a dialogue with somebody. That's really that separation of Profit Activator Two, compelling people to raise their hand, and Profit Activator Three, where we're educating and motivating people.

We don't want to start educating and motivating everybody until we're in a conversation with somebody who could be our ideal prospect. I'll keep you posted. I think this is going to work out to be one of the great success stories that we have. I'll look forward to sharing Jan's results with you here.

If you'd like to continue the conversation here, you can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com, and you can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book. If you'd like to see how the eight Profit Activators are really applying to your business, either helping to grow your business, or slow your business, I'd encourage you to try our Profit Activator score card, where you can get a sense of where the opportunities are in your business. You can get that at profitactivatorscore.com. That's it for this week, and I will talk to you next time.