Ep087: Dr. Phil Yoo

Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast we had a great conversation with Dr. Phillip Yoo. Phil is in California and he helps people with knee pain, shoulder pain, back pain, spine stenosis, a whole list of conditions they're able to relieve with stem cell therapy.

It reminded me of the episode we did with Malton Schexneider, back in Ep023… Both had the same model of using ads to invite people to a workshop and then educating people about the process. From the workshop, people will come to the office, get evaluated and then choose to do some 'laser guided' stem cell therapy.

We talked about the importance of identifying your ideal prospects and turning invisible prospects visible by using a book instead of using the workshop as the way of first getting in touch with them.

This is a great episode and really reinforces what we talked about with Malton.

I think you'll enjoy it, especially if you're using workshops as a lead generation source.


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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 087

Dean: Well, welcome Dr. Yoo.

Dr. Yoo: Yes sir, thank you.

Dean: I've been looking at the ads and things that you sent over, your postcards here. Welcome to the call. I'm seated in my evil scheming position, ready for duty.

Dr. Yoo: All right. Let's do it.

Dean: Can you share a little bit about who you are and the background here, and where you think we might be able to find the big breakthrough for you?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. By trade, I'm originally a Doctor of Chiropractic, but as you may well know, just like there's a dentist on every street corner, there's also a chiropractor on every street corner. If you're just offering generic dental or chiropractic services, you're more of a commodity. When I started a practice here in California, I was blindsided because all of sudden 2008, 2009, all these companies were going out of business. They pulled back their insurance coverages and I was almost three months from closing my doors.

Dean: Wow.

Dr. Yoo: I knew had to find a way, A, to go into a cash practice model, because you can't depend on third party insurance. And B, I had to find out to get cash in a prepaid model. And C, I had to differentiate myself. I discovered this Dr. Youta, he was using these class four lasers in his chiropractic practice. I flew up there. Paid him some money to get some consulting. Learned how to do this decompression laser, how to do cash and from there, I was able to not only save my practice, but we made a pretty good business out of it. Now, a few years ago, then every chiropractor started getting these lasers. Again, you're a commodity. I had to find out how to differentiate myself again.

Now, the new niche is to get into regenerative medicine, which is a stem cell therapy. Again, I learned how to implement the stem cell therapy. It's not easy. You have to integrate with a medical doctor. You have to hire a medical team, medical assistants, nurse practitioners. It took several months to set it up with a medical attorney, but we just launched that last month. That's what we're doing now.

Dean: How's that working so far? So now, you've been doing this for a couple of years, like this?

Dr. Yoo: Well, just like I said before, it is like kind of a new niche in the healthcare industry, but there are stem cell clinics popping up everywhere, especially Southern California. Again, why are my stem cells better than someone else? Well, what I've done is I've married laser therapy with stem cell therapy, so I call my program, Laser Guided Stem Cell Grafting.

Dean: Oh my.

Dr. Yoo: Not only did I differentiate myself again, but it's actually more effective, because the research is showing that the laser is actually helped the stem cell grow. Just to break it down to layman's terms. Have you ever grown a plant in your house before, a plant? You put the seeds in the soil, in the little pot. And where do you put the plant? On the windowsill, right.

Dean: Right.

Dr. Yoo: Why is that?

Dean: That's where the light is.

Dr. Yoo: There you go. What direction do plant stems grow?

Dean: Towards the light.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. You notice how the stems grow towards the sun. What I found out was, every cell has a little battery. It's called mitochondria. In the mitochondria, it's a little technical, it's what's called cytochrome C complex. That needs ATP energy to cause cell division, which is the stem cells replicating and growing so you can repair your body, regrow new tissue. That's the regenerative process. The laser gives the cell ATP energy, so it can continue to repair and divide your body cells. That's what our laser guided system helps.

Dean: Wow. It's a combination of injections and the laser treatment to-

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. That's just the bare bones. It's a whole program, because you can't just ... Let's say, a lot of people have pain in their knee, right?

Dean: Yes.

Dr. Yoo: A lot of people have pain on the inside of their knee, especially golfers, the left inside knee because that's where they roll on it when they swing.

Dean: Sure, yeah.

Dr. Yoo: Well, a lot of people have pain there because they overuse that part of their joints. They tear their meniscus, because of the rotation, the twisting. A lot of people develop what's called a bow leg. All right. Now, if you have bow leg, that means you lost cartilage on the inside of the knee. Let's say if we stick the stem cells inside that part, inside of the knee, how do we know the stem cells are going to stay there? Because stem cells, they tend to spread around, so you might have wasted that injection because a lot of those cells aren't staying in the medial knee. To ensure the cells stay there, what the laser does, it acts like a let's say, a light glue. All right? Because the stem cells are attracted to the laser. Think about it. I put the stem cells on the inside of the knee, follow it with a laser at a certain nanometer, about 630 nanometers. Those stem cells will stay there because it wants the ATP energy. In that way, you're not wasting your injection.

Dean: Gotcha.

Dr. Yoo: There's a lot of ways to amplify, to ensure the cells stay, repair and replicate. You have to make what's called an alkaline environment. We'll put bicarbonate solution in that part of the knee, which is alkaline and that helps the stem cells make a positive environment to grow. Then you have to detox your body. It's a whole program.

Dean: Yes. Where do the stem cells come from?

Dr. Yoo: Okay, so there are several types now. Originally this doctor from Korea, called Dr. Hee Young Lee, discovered there are stem cells in your fat cells.

Dean: All right.

Dr. Yoo: There was a lot of surgeons in the US doing plastic surgery where they would do liposuction. They'd take the fat from your abdominal, and throw it out. But then Dr. Lee was going, why are you throwing adipose cells out? That's liquid gold. Those have stem cells in there. Posteriad stem cells, that used to be the gold standard. They'd take it out of your fat, put it back in the part of your body that needs repair. A lot of times that would work. Then, other doctors are taking it from your bone marrow. Okay? But the problem with these procedures, A, it is a surgical extract. You can get an infection in the bone, or your fat area. And then, the older you get, the less stem cell count you have. If you're a young, Olympic athlete, like Michael Phelps per se, and he doesn't have a lot of fat, but they'd probably take it from his bone marrow, because you have to have some fat to take it from.

Dean: Sure, yeah.

Dr. Yoo: Now, when you're young, healthy athlete, your cells are going to be vibrant. They're not going to be as toxic. They're going to have a large count. It's going to work for you. However, if you're over 55, if you're 60, 70, 80, you're not going to have a lot of stem cells left. They're going to be toxic and what's call apoptotic, which means they're going under cell death. It doesn't make sense to take an 80 year old stem cell from your fat or bone marrow, and put it into an 80 year old knee, or IV it for systemic health. Most likely it's going to fail because you don't have a high count. Now, in you're in Germany-

Dean: So where do you-

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. If you're out of the country, what you can do is, you could take your stem cells from your bone marrow, or your fat, and you can expand it, which means they'll culture it. They'll grow it to 10 times the amount, then put it in your body. That makes sense, but that's outlawed in the US. You can't do it. You have to fly to Panama, Mexico, and Germany. Unless your Peyton Manning, or Kobe Bryant with zillions of dollars, you're not going to be able to afford to do that.

Dean: Right.

Dr. Yoo: Here's the solution. We use umbilical cord derived stem cells, from a company in Utah. The advantage of that is, you get a high count of cells, they're freshly born, and you don't have to have a surgical extract like the bone marrow or adipose. That solves that issue. All right? It's kind of like you're getting a restart on your joint or your nerve, or the body part, or even organ that needs regeneration. A lot of people confuse umbilical cord stem cells with embryonic. Embryonic is when ... By the way, we're a stem cell. It's nothing mysterious, because your father and mother procreated, the sperm and the egg met, and thus we are born. We're an embryo. Then our cells divide, become a fetus and then when you're born, the umbilical cord is there as well. The umbilical cord is actually called, it's an adult, matured stem cell tissue, because it's already matured. The baby is already born, which means it cannot grow into a human. It cannot grow into a tumor or cancer, because those cells are already adult matured.

However, when you're born, you have a high count of what's called mesenchymal stem cells, which could differentiate into cartilage, into nerve, or organs that need to be regenerated. There's no risk of the cell turning into a tumor or another human. There's nothing unethical about it. In fact, President Bush outlawed embryonic in his administration, so we cannot do that in the US, anyways.

Dean: Wow. That all sounds very well thought out, scientifically. I imagine it's been around and proven. What kind of results does it get? What's your outcome as far as this?

Dr. Yoo: Let me give you some examples. We always start the majority of our patients on the laser therapy, and some decompression, maybe some chiropractics, but the truth of the matter is, most of our patients are baby boomers or seniors, very fragile. You're going to take a risk doing traditional chiropractic manipulation, so we try to do it very gentle with an instrument called an arthrostim, which is a tool that helps gently align the spine. But however, the bread and butter is our classical laser. We'll give them several laser treatments for let's say their bone on bone knee. All right? Or, their peripheral neuropathy, numbness of their feet.

If they don't respond, that's telling us that their body does not have enough stem cells to repair. You see, not everybody needs to have stem cells injected into them, because if you have good genetics and a good healthy lifestyle, you may have enough stem cells to repair yourself. What the laser does, it helps activate your body's natural dormant stem cells to wake up, go to the target tissue and repair. But however, if the laser in itself does not work, then at that point we offer them to have the umbilical cord stem cell therapy added to their laser program.

Let's say you asked, well what's the success rate? In general, I'd say for the typical chronic pain patient, baby boomers or seniors with osteoarthritis or some type of peripheral neuropathy, I'd say with the laser itself, between 50 and 70% success. Now, you add the stem cells, we're talking up to 90. It's amazing. I had a patient, she underwent some several weeks of laser therapy for her bone on bone knee, and numbness, pain in her legs or feet, called peripheral neuropathy. She's 91 years old. Didn't make many results, so I offered her the stem cell option. She went for it. We put the stem cells in her knee. We IV'd stem cells in her brachial vein in her arm, and then we put the infrared lights on her feet to draw the stem cells from the IV to her feet. Then we lasered her knee to draw the stem cells in there, just target tissue. After five days, she's 50% better.

Dean: Wow. That's amazing.

Dr. Yoo: At 91 years old.

Dean: Wow

Dr. Yoo: Usually it takes about five weeks.

Dean: They must love that.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. Usually it takes about five weeks for the stem cells to graft and get the results, but she made results in five days.

Dean: That's so great.

Dr. Yoo: Did you get my postcard with the before and after x-rays, on the back?

Dean: I'm looking at it right now, yeah. About osteo-

Dr. Yoo: That is her knee right there. That's it. That's the 91 year old patient.

Dean: Okay, perfect. I'll put this up on the show notes too, so people can see what we're talking about. Yeah. That's fantastic. Okay. I feel at least 50% better in my bone on bone knee, and peripheral neuropathy pain, the numbness in my legs and feet, after only five days, after having my laser guided stem cell therapy. That's great.

Dr. Yoo: You can see that before and after x-ray ... That's not her knee. That's another patient, but you can see a bone on bone on the left, and nine weeks later you can see the joint spaces starting to be restored.

Dean: Gotcha. But you know, for the layperson on the postcard like this, I don't really notice the different ... I mean you can slightly see that there's more.

Dr. Yoo: I told them, make sure you make that knee x-ray standout. If you're a senior, it's kind of hard to see that. They probably have to have a magnifying glass. But, we gotta change that.

Dean: Tell me about these postcards. Is this the primary way that you find people? Let’s kind of get into the marketing side of it now. You've got the blessing of something that provides relief when other things don't. You've got a 90% success rate. You've got a graduated program where you start out with the laser, just in case you don't need the stem cells, but then you've got that in your back pocket if it's something that they need. How long is the treatment program, typically?

Dr. Yoo: We typically start out people with what's called a two week laser trial. All right? That'll be typically about six treatments over the span of two weeks. You see, the thing that people hate about chiropractics, they think that you want to try and get them to come for life. Typically, we would sell, well, you gotta come three times a week for three months, and you gotta pay six grand for the whole amount. It's a hard sell, you know. That's always been the decompression days. But now you can't do that. People are more skeptical. And then, I felt real bad when someone would come to me for 30 visits over three months, for decompression laser, and they're still in pain. You're going to be crying for a refund, or you have to extend their treatment plans, but now we have a program where after six treatments if they don't get the results we can fall on the stem cell option. It's only one visit, and we get 90% success rate instead of having to see them three months, with up to 50 to 70% chance. That's the beauty of it.

Dean: How much does that cost, what people end up paying for the laser and the stem cell? What's the average kind of cost, just typical?

Dr. Yoo: If we do just the laser program itself, we don't really do it by the visit, because it takes at least two weeks to really notice a difference in these chronic, degenerative cases. Typically, it'll cost around $1,650 for a set of six treatments. That's just with the laser and all the other chiropractic and decompression, and we also do pulse electromagnetic field therapy with the magnets. It's not like you're coming here and you're getting adjusted and lasered, and you're leaving in 10 minutes. You're here for an hour. It's more like a laser spa type atmosphere, which justifies. It breaks down to about $275 a visit, so $1,650 for six, so it justifies.

Dean: How long is the treatment?

Dr. Yoo: About an hour, at least.

Dean: Okay. And then stem cell-

Dr. Yoo: And then stem cell, it depends on how many milliliters or vials you need, because the lab we order it from sells it by the milliliter. Let's say your typical, garden variety bone on bone knee, all right? We like to put two milliliters in there. A lot of clinics only put one milliliter. Typically, that'll cost just around $6,000 per joint, or per tissue. All right? Now, let’s take Bernice, the 91 year old who had neuropathy and bone on bone. We put two milliliters in her knee, and two milliliters IV'd in her arm, which would circulate through the lungs and her body, and then the infrared lights would pull those cells to her legs and feet. She had four units. That's a $12,000 case, right there.

Dean: Is that typical or not, somebody would-

Dr. Yoo: At this population, it seems like just the typical American, they're getting more osteoarthritis. They're getting more nerve damage in their ankles and feet. It's becoming more typical than one might think.

Dean: Right. Okay. How do you find people now? Tell me how the before unit of this works. We've talked about the during unit, that you're able to get the result for people 50% of the time, or 70% with the laser. Then, if you need to, you've got the stem cells, and that gets you up to 90 plus percent. So pretty dramatic results. Really great. Like a dream come true for people like we talked about, right? They're able to look kind of pain free, or greatly reduced pain. How do you find people now? How does the before unit of this work?

Dr. Yoo: All right. I visited this dentist, and he does a specific procedure that not a lot of dentists do. He'll pretty much give you laughing gas during your implant, when you get the teeth implanted, right? I was thinking about that word. What is it, implantation of new teeth?

Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Yoo: Anyways, he would have people all around Southern California, going to his office. I think it's in Riverside here, because he's the one and only dentist to do this for some reason. I went to one of his seminars, and he had more than 100 people there. I noticed his banner sign. It says, new teeth in one day. I'm like, great.

Dean: Teeth in a day. Right.

Dr. Yoo: I would love to be able to claim like, new knees in one day. New nerves in your feet in one day. What I did was, I said, okay, new knees in two weeks. And that was just the laser. Now with the stem cells we could legitimately claim, new knees in one day, because it's one injection. That's where I kind of learned that, I need to do seminars. I hated doing that because it takes a lot of time. It's time away from your family, because we had to do it at dinner or lunch, or something. But, a lot of people I find, if they're well educated, then when they come to your office, it's just easier. It's easier to get them to start and commit to treatment.

Now, we make most of our patients go to a seminar about the laser therapy, about the pulse electromagnetic therapy, and laser guided stem cell grafting before they sit in front of me. Because, if they sit in front of me without any knowledge, I gotta spend an hour presenting a private seminar, and I'm worn out, and most likely they're getting fire hosed with too much information. They'll say, thank you. I'll think about it.

Dean: What is the, if you were narrating, how the before unit works? We were on how it's made. You start out with, who do you target? Do you do postcards? Do you do newspaper ads? Do you do Facebook ads? AdWords, what are you doing to find people?

Dr. Yoo: I'm kind of a Dan Kennedy geek. As you know, Dan is not fond of online. He's not fond of Facebook. I've experimented with, I think, four different Facebook companies. We've either went minus, or we've broke even, targeting our niche with our baby boomers, seniors, with a certain income level, suffering with some sort of chronic pain, usually osteoarthritis or peripheral neuropathy. All right?

Dean: Can you just as a sidebar, can you explain to me about peripheral neuropathy is? I hear that word, but I don't know what that means.

Dr. Yoo: In Latin, periphery means anything in the extremities, outside the brain, typically your arms, hands, legs or feet. Neuropathy, neuro means nerve. Pathy is pathologic, means disease of the nerve. Any type of numbness, tingling, pain, loss of balance, loss of muscle strength in your extremities, or arms, hands, legs or feet is peripheral neuropathy.

Dean: I gotcha.

Dr. Yoo: Typically, caused by pinched nerves in your neck, or your back, like stenosis or herniated disc or systemic, metabolic, like diabetic neuropathy. Or, if you're taking statin drugs, that causes neuropathy. If you're a smoker, alcoholic, that damages the nerves. A chemotherapy fries up your nerves.

Dean: Okay. Got it. So the online stuff so far, hasn't worked. You can't just say, Facebook doesn't work, or whatever.

Dr. Yoo: I'm still trying to crack the code on my target audience. I'm still trying to crack the code on online or social media, to get that sustainable referral source.

Dean: Gotcha. Okay. You rely on the offline things. You're doing ... Tell me about this postcard, because that's what I'm holding right here. How does this play out? If this is the beginning, who do you target to send these postcards to?

Dr. Yoo: I have two different versions. I think I sent you both.

Dean: Yeah.

Dr. Yoo: Do you have both versions in front of you? There's one that has a picture of a gift card. All right?

Dean: The one I have says, Stem Cell Institute of America.

Dr. Yoo: Thank you. There should be one on the back of it where it shows Bernice, that 91 year old patient.

Dean: Yeah. I see that. Right. Is that the back of the same postcard?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah, yeah. But I have two versions. One postcard actually has, it's an offer for a stem cell consultation in the office with me, or an associate doctor. Then, there's a coupon for $1,650. Now, this is only offered to, if you've been a patient with us before and you paid $1,650. This version is sent out to our patient house list. The majority of those people have been to our office. They've paid at least $1,650 for their six laser treatments. This is kind of reactivation campaign for those who, they either came to the office. Got their six visits. Had great results, and they graduated, or they got their six visits. Paid the $1,650 and they didn't come back because they didn't have good results. This is meant to give them an incentive to come try the stem cells and then the gift certificate, it's kind of like, well, what they paid before didn't go to waste, because they could use it as a credit towards their laser guided stem cell treatment.

The second version ... Go ahead.

Dean: The one I have, that's kind of a renewal campaign, kind of.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. A live customer reactivation campaign.

Dean: I gotcha. This one, The Stem Cell Institute of America postcard, how does that work out? What do you do with that?

Dr. Yoo: The other one is, it's mailed out to a direct mail list that we buy. The general overlay is 55 years and older, with an income of $100,000 or more, and you're a homeowner. It's a more expensive list because the overlay is very specific. The list we got for this is going out to 20,000 households. This postcard has a different code than the other, so we can track it. And that phone number, the 888, that goes to a tracking number so we can see how many calls are coming in from this number. When they make an appointment for the seminar, our call center asks them what the RSVP code is. That way we can track if this campaign was successful or not.

Dean: Must mention the code.

Dr. Yoo: Now, this is a test. We never mailed out this postcard to this list before, so we'll see the results, because they are being mailed out as we speak.

Dean: Okay, so these are on their way, right now. You haven't used this one in the field yet?

Dr. Yoo: No, no. This is a test. Before, I used to mail out a 12 page newsletter type publication, which talked about the laser and magnets and each niche condition, like osteoarthritis, neuropathy, spinal stenosis, failed back surgery. But, this time we're just testing the postcard, for now.

Dean: Okay. Have you done postcards in the past, or is this some new-

Dr. Yoo: I have. Yeah. I did not get good results. We did a campaign with the same size postcard for osteoarthritis of the knee and it pretty much flopped.

Dean: Okay. How much does it cost for you to mail? You're mailing all 20,000 of the same postcard?

Dr. Yoo: This is about 38 cents apiece. So, 38 times 20,000 postcards ... It's the morning and I can't add, but whatever that comes out to be. Not cheap.

Dean: I gotcha. I gotcha. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about $8,000, I think.

Dr. Yoo: Something like that, yeah.

Dean: Bottom line is you got a high priced thing.

Dr. Yoo: Here's the deal. I spend eight grand. We're mailing out 20,000 of these. In reality, all I really need is one stem cell case, and let's say they do a double, well that's 12 grand. I'm pretty much breaking even because I gotta count the call center fees and everything.

Dean: Yeah. That's the thing. I look at it that, that's the way people kind of go think about direct mail like that. You're thinking, but when you look at it, there's some opportunity for you here. The challenge is that you are focusing on the getting people to, the call to action is to come to the workshop. Right?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah.

Dean: But, it's not really crystal clear that that's what's going on. Let's talk a little bit about your postcard here, because right now, when you look at it, the lead headline is, Stem Cell Institute of America. That's the headline, which is not a benefit. And then, do you suffer from, with this long list of arrowed things, neck pain, shoulder pain, low back pain, sciatic leg pain, hip or knee osteoarthritis, spine stenosis, disc disease, peripheral neuropathy, plantar fasciitis, failed surgery. Stop the pain. Get relief without surgery. So that, you would call your headline, because that's up there, the first thing we see.

And then you've got the illustration of the man with the hot points on the ankle, the knee, the hip, the elbow, the shoulder. We immediately we kind of ... When you look at it, just the visual ques, that's kind of the internationally accepted, visual ques for pain, is the glowing hot embers on the hotspots there. We're jumping that out, stops the pain. And then, find out if regenerative medicine is right for you. Regenerative medicine using adult human tissue cells to regenerate and repair tissues in your body, where damage due to injury, age, disease of defects. Some stem cells have the power to go these damaged areas and generate new cells and rebuild the area. Safe, ethical, effective. Upcoming seminars, Palm Desert, La Quinta, Rancho Mirage, seven or eight locations. For dates or times, go to laserstemed.com, and reserve your spot today. You've got the phone number, which is a tracking number you said, so you can track, which calls are coming from it.

Funny that along the same line here, have you tested this, or this messaging in a newspaper ad or-

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. I tested it on a ... This same design in the newspaper ad.

Dean: What happened in the newspaper, when you ran this?

Dr. Yoo: Okay, I could pull out the stats here. I use Richard Sapella's ROI guy to track that. I gave him a free plug. Hopefully it lets me log in. Let's see. I'll just tell you this much, just from the stats I've seen, we are getting people to the seminar from this half page ad design. I just got to get exact numbers here. Let's see. Better stem cell seminar, blah, blah, blah.

Dean: It's very funny, I don't know if you heard the episode of More Cheese Less Whiskers, with Melton. They're doing something almost identical in Louisville, in Kentucky. They're driving by newspaper ads. One of the things, same sort of thought process that I'm going to go through with you is that they were using full page and half page newspaper ads that look like articles, like they were really direct response kind of articles. They ended up where they would run the ads, then they would get people to come to a workshop. Then they would do the workshop, and get people to come into the office. What I suggested on the podcast, same thing I'm going to suggest for you is that when you're doing a workshop as the response mechanism, the thing that limits you is that you have to have people who are A, interested in the information that you have. And then in addition to that, they have to be available to come to the workshop, and willing to come to a workshop. Right?

You've got some hoops for people to overcome. What I suggested is that if you were to do a book instead of the workshop, as the response mechanism, A, you would get more people to respond, because they can respond instantly to get it, and you get the extended benefit of having more opportunities to invite them to future workshops.

Dr. Yoo: That's funny, because I do have a book. I wrote about the lasers, and we give that to our guests who come to our laser seminar.

Dean: Yeah.

Dr. Yoo: I need to work on a book about the stem cells, so maybe you could help with that.

Dean: Well, that's exactly right. I just got an email from Melton where he said, because I asked about what had happened since our podcast. He said, since our conversation we've seen our leads and conversions grow substantially. Where we were attracting 20 to 30 new people a month to our seminars, we're now attracting 80 to 100, and having to add additional overflow events to accommodate everyone that would like to attend. This is accomplished by adopting your recommendation of using a book as our lead magnet rather than the one step process of inviting anyone interested to attend our seminars. The book helps us to establish our credibility and authority, plus enabled us to build a list of over 1,000 people interesting in our program, in a very short timeframe.

What's happening right now is, you've chosen 20,000 people who by all sort of indications are a higher propensity to be your clients. You got 20,000 people, over 55, who make $100,000 a year, so you've got a good group of what I call suspects. You've got that group of people within there, some number of them are going to have this issue. Do you have a general sense of what the density of people who have this is? What's the-

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. Most of these folks they're golfers or tennis players. I would say ... I hate to throw a number out there. I would say at least half have some type of joint pain. For some reason knee pain is on the rise, knee, or hip, or back, or even shoulder. Oh, by the way, I just emailed you my neuropathy ad for our lasers that has my book there. I just wanted you to take a peek at that.

Dean: Okay. So, when you look at it, you've got half of the people that may have that sort of an issue, right?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah.

Dean: Some number of those may have a bad enough issue that it's causing them to have a lower quality of life. It's causing angst, where they would want to look at you to get something, fix it. You've got a nice, potentially group of people there, but what we're doing, let's say we've chosen those 20,000. Now, right away, we've limited it to half of them that have some kind of knee pain, and then some percentage of those have bad enough knee pain, or any kind of pain that it would be on their mind as they're seeking some kind of solution for it. Or, they've tried to get some kind of relief for it. So, some number smaller than 10,000 of them that are actually your ideal clients.

Now, when you're doing something that the response mechanism is, come to a workshop, you're getting, like I said, the people who have the issue, who also are willing and available to come to a workshop. You're kind of narrowing it down there. When the people who respond there, they're kind of like the cream of the crop in a way. They have to really be able to read into this that there's something that could be right for me. Even when I look at your ... When I look at the postcard, it's really kind of upcoming seminars, is really the only indication that there's a seminar for me to come to. Right?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah.

Dean: If I look at the postcard, I would say that the headline, Stem Cell Institute of America, that's the star of this. That's what this is about. Now, I don't know what that means, but it sounds scary. Right? It sounds like that if I have knee pain, it doesn't necessarily in translate to me that this is about me, or about the relief that I could get, because of this.

Dr. Yoo: Yes, agreed.

Dean: Right. When we look at it that the goal would be if I could wave a magic wand, if I could say, listen, we can mail this postcard to 20,000 people and maybe some people will come for the seminar, or we could identify the people in here. What if we could get the 200 people who have knee pain to identify themselves. That would be-

Dr. Yoo: I've asked about if I can get what's called an ailment list, people with knee pain, people with arthritis. We've tried Info USA. These lists are ... We haven't found a list that was reliable or responsive yet.

Dean: That doesn't matter. You've got the thing here. When you're looking at it, is the number one thing knee pain?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. For instance, did you get my two emails? One is an arthritis postcard I used before, and one is a neuropathy news ad. Did you get those emails?

Dean: I have the news pod here.

Dr. Yoo: All right. Now, that's a different issue. That's the nerve pain. You see the book offer?

Dean: Yeah. Okay. How do these work? What's been the-

Dr. Yoo: That's one of my bread and butter ads. It's almost always positive ROI.

Dean: Okay.

Dr. Yoo: And then the postcard, the second one is an arthritis postcard.

Dean: Okay. So, arthritis pain relief secret. See, right away, that when you look at the difference. When you say Stem Cell Institute of America, or you see arthritis pain relief secrets, it's really interesting the difference in you can see who the focus is on. Right?

Dr. Yoo: Yes.

Dean: Yeah. Finally, new non-surgical options for bone on bone knee pain, osteoarthritis. Okay, yeah. I like that. Then you've still got the workshops that people can respond to. Free lunch and learns.

Dr. Yoo: Yes.

Dean: Okay. I would look at this like, the number one goal of profit activator number two, is to get your ideal prospects to raise their hand. We need to turn invisible prospects into visible prospects. Right now you've got, you can't like you said, get a list of people who are ideal candidates. It's just tough to get that list with people who have chronic pain, so you have to create that list out of the general population of the people who are in the right age category and income category that you need, that they're going to be able to do something about it. We've got to that point, where they live. You know who they are. You know how much money they make, and we've got 20,000 of those people. Now our goal is to get as many of those people who have that knee pain issue to raise their hand and identify themselves to us, so that we can go down the path of now, educating and motivating those people in profit activator three.

Now, we know who they are. Now we get the chance to send them the book, to send them emails, to videos, to webinars, to whatever it is, and invite them to come to one of the live workshops as the next step. All the while, kind of leading people to meet with you face to face. It's kind of like creating these subsets. Right now when you look at it, if you mail the postcards and people come to the workshop, and people then come in to see you and they end up doing a treatment, those people are all ultimately a subset of the 20,000 people.

And, he's back.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah, listen, we got cut off.

Dean: I was watching you for a second. I was describing how of the 20,000, our goal now is to identify as many of those as we can that will identify that they have that issue. Being selfless, not even necessarily using the thing to get them to come to the workshop, but getting them to take the single action that would be the easiest thing for them to do, which would be to ask for a book. If they're sitting there and they've got this knee pain, and they're looking for a solution for it, those people will be far more of those people who would ask for a book than would come to a workshop. Probably four or five times as many people. Now, instead of mailing 20,000 postcards, getting a handful of people to come to a workshop and getting a few to come into the office, if we can mail the 20,000 postcards you get a few hundred people to raise their hand. Now, we've got a targeted list. Now we know that those people are in pain enough that they would love to get a book about it, to get the result.

Dr. Yoo: What type of call to action would you have in the book? Like call for a consultation, or a seminar?

Dean: Yeah. So here's the process, right? I would look at it ... You've even got a book. You've got a book on 21st century pain relief. Yeah, 21st century pain relief. When you look at it, your medical breakthrough from chronic pain to vibrant health. Is that a traditional book like a-

Dr. Yoo: Well, I got three different covers from that book. One is the knee pain version. One is the neuropathy, and one is the back pain. Depending on what niche they have, yeah.

Dean: Okay, perfect. When you look at that, so the offer would be ... The way that we do the books is using them as your opportunity to speak to your ideal audience for an hour. Do a presentation, kind of, for them to educate. Same kind of things you would do if they were to come to a workshop. It's not necessarily to be the definitive work or a technical breakdown of all of it. The kind of books we do, and we use the 90 Minute Book process for these, is to create a lead generation book, where we've got a title that is specific to that audience. We've got a nice looking cover that indicates that this is a book, and then a website that makes it available for people to download. That's all we're looking for is that once they ask for the book, the book in a way, has done its job. I'm not depending on the book to be the next step. I'm depending on now, taking the fact that they asked for the book, and engaging with them to help them get the relief that the book promises.

Anybody who asks for a book on knee pain relief, you can be certain that they either have knee pain themselves, or they've asked for the book because somebody they love has knee pain.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. The beautiful thing is they had to of entered, giving you their mailing address. You could do follow-up campaigns from that.

Dean: That's the point. That's what I'm saying, is that you get so much more opportunity now. The way I look at this is that, if I can just get somebody who's in knee pain to raise their hand, even if they don't come in right now, even if they're kind of in the middle of something else, or they're about to ... They're taking some new supplements, or they're on some physio, or they're doing some chiropractic, or they're doing some kind of intervention-

Dr. Yoo: ... surgery.

Dean: With somebody else that there's a good chance that what they're doing is ultimately not going to work, and that problem is going to come back, or not go away. In 30 days, 90 days, six months from now, when the knee pain comes back up and we are consistently educating and motivating them, showing them story after story of people who are living without pain, and offering to invite them to a new workshop that's right around the corner from them, that's a really cool opportunity.

Dr. Yoo: Instead of trying to hit them over the head, come in now. You'd think we'd be nurturing them for when they're ready.

Dean: That is exactly right.

Dr. Yoo: It may not be. It could be next year, a few months.

Dean: That's what we're saying. Whenever you're ready. That's why if you ever see the emails that I send, at the end of every email it says, plus whenever you're ready, here are four ways I can help you. Every time when you look at it, that the opportunities that you have to join us for a stem cell lunch and learn. We've got workshops coming up. Here are the workshops. Or, come in to the office for a free consultation. Or, whatever your ... Or, talk to us on the phone. Whatever the next step might be that would move people forward.

Dr. Yoo: That being said, yeah. I agree.

Dean: When will you know the results of your postcard here? I'm going to be very-

Dr. Yoo: I just got the stats from that same design in a half page news ad. We ran it twice. So far, it's 52 calls from that ad, with the same design.

Dean: Wow. Okay. How much did the ad cost that you ran?

Dr. Yoo: That ad is around $600.

Dean: Okay. You spent $1,200 and you got 52-

Dr. Yoo: Typically, half will show up to the seminar, and half will actually come to an appointment, and then half of those will actually pay for treatments.

Dean: Exactly.

Dr. Yoo: So maybe we'll get about six clients from that, paying six grand, so 36 grand right there.

Dean: Yeah. You know what's so funny, Phillip? I'm going to email you a link to listen to the Melton episode, because it's exactly the same kind of situation.

Dr. Yoo: Are they with the Stem Cell Institute as well, or not by chance?

Dean: I don't know if they're with Stem Cell Institute, but they do stem cell. That's the treatment that they do. But same thing, they were running full page ads. They would get people to call and register. Half of the people would come to the workshop. Half of them would come into the office, and then some number of those would continue on to get the treatment. It works and it's profitable, and they would spend the money. They were running in the bigger newspaper, so they might spend $5,000 on the ad, and they were generating 30, or 40, or $50,000 from it, at the end. When we switched to offering the book, now instead of getting the people to come to a workshop, they're getting hundreds of people asking for the book. Immediately they're engaging and inviting those same people to come to the workshops, so they end up getting more people even at the workshop than they were getting by just advertising the workshop.

Dr. Yoo: Now, besides sending them follow-up emails about inviting them to future workshops, because they're a senior population, a lot of them really don't like computers, or even check their emails.

Dean: Right, exactly.

Dr. Yoo: What is a good way? By postcards, advertising lists?

Dean: Physical newsletters. Physical postcards. Where now, you know who they are. Essentially, you've lit up that address as, you've got a real person now. You've got not just one of the group of 20,000 people who kind of meet the demographic profile of what you're looking for. Now you've got a few hundred people who are self indicating that they have knee pain, because they asked for a book about getting relief from it.

Dr. Yoo: As you see in my other news ad, we use the book as bait, but we make them come to the seminar to get the book.

Dean: Yeah. I'm saying, use the book as the way to get them to raise their hand.

Dr. Yoo: Although it's going to cost me what, five, six bucks per book, plus the shipping, maybe seven bucks.

Dean: I would make a ... Part of the reason that we use the 90 Minute Books for this is that those books are smaller. You can shape the message to be specifically about what somebody would need to know, and lead them to the workshop itself, or to come into the office, or to get a free consultation. Those books end up, they cost two dollars and ten cents, as opposed to five or six.

Dr. Yoo: Mine is kind of long, more than 100 pages. They're probably not going to read it. If it's smaller they might read it more. Did you do the book for that other stem cell clinic?

Dean: Yeah. We do hundreds. I've got a whole-

Dr. Yoo: You already know the format, so it's a no brainer.

Dean: Exactly right.

Dr. Yoo: You just got to make mine more niche like, oh the laser guided stem cell surgery.

Dean: Right. And that's the thing when you explain that and then you share the stories of people who have had the result, like you're kind of talking about those case studies, just like you would. The way that we frame it is, what would you say if you were a guest on a radio show, and the whole audience is people who have knee pain? You're explaining the whole process of, in a nontechnical way really, but just in a way that is introducing people to the idea that there's such a thing as stem cells and how it works in overcoming what their objections might be to it, because they might think that, well that sounds painful, or that sounds like that it's ... I don't want to mess with my genetics, or my cells or anything like that. You kind of get a chance to shape the narrative the way they think about it by the way you'd describe it, and the way that you introduce it.

Then, the whole thing is that on the back cover of the book is the, here's what to do next. That's the most important part. Right? Because the thing is, as soon as they ask for it, the book's done its job in that they've identified a visible prospect now. Then you get to engage with them and kind of lead to the next step, over a period of time. We find that all of the lead conversion stuff that I do, I base on this understanding that half of the people that inquire, about anything, are going to do whatever it is they've inquired about within the next two years. But only 15% of them will do it within the first 90 days. I'm looking for that longterm. I'm looking for the fact that they asked for it today, because that gives us more time to educate them about the process, to show them more and more success stories, to let them try other things that don't work, and come to that conclusion on their own.

When they're ready, we're right there for them. Now, you can come to this workshop. Once you know where they live, you can only invite them to the one that's right around the corner from them. Because, if I lived in Los Angeles, I'm not that interested in what's going on in Palm Desert.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah, yeah. Now, we used to give out a consumer guide to neuropathy or spine pain. There'd be like three versions, and each one would have a call to action to respond before the offer. Now, would you say the book versus consumer guide to stem cells is better, or the answer is kind of do both?

Dean: Well, you kind of do both. I like the thing ... Joe Polish and I talk about this on the marketing quite a bit. There's a real great place for consumer awareness guides, as an educating thing, but they're not as responsive. I look at them, they're a wonderful profit activator three tool, for educating and motivating, but they're not as compelling as a straight up offer of the benefit that they're really looking for. Knee pain relief, that's the words that are going to be compelling to somebody who's in knee pain, not the consumer's guide to stem cell research, stem cells therapy. That doesn't do the same thing. If you laid those books down on a table, and somebody looked at them and they're in knee pain, they're going to immediately pick up the knee pain relief book. Because that's the one that promises the benefit. It's compelling to them.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. It's the niche not the-

Dean: That's it. That's exactly right. I think there's something to that. Those are the kinds of things, you can test that with 1,000 postcards. You can test with 1,000 at a time to find the, I call it, the scale-ready algorithm. I wouldn't get to a point where I would mail 20,000 of something that I don't know for certain it's the one that's going to win.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah, yeah. All right. These are all good gold nuggets.

Dean: Yeah. Here's the thing. This has come before, so I'll send you a link to the Melton episode.

Dr. Yoo: All right.

Dean: You can listen to that too, because we had the same sort of conversation, and we now have that worked out for him. But then, would you keep me posted also on the results here, as they come in, so I can update it and we can know what happens with this postcard?

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. Absolutely. We'll post it when we redesign it according to your recommendations too.

Dean: Perfect. I love it. Well, that's very great. That was fun. Boy, time flies, doesn't it?

Dr. Yoo: We've already got our first chapter written from my introduction to laser stem cell program, so we can start writing that.

Dean: Perfect. All right.

Dr. Yoo: Is that it today?

Dean: That's it, Phillip. I think that's ... What's your takeaway here? What's the thing? What do you think you're going to act on here?

Dr. Yoo: I think that I kind of had the right idea, but was too focusing on the stem cell word itself, thinking that people ... That would attract them. Where it's really just go back to what I was doing before and focus on what their ailment is.  They can't golf because of knee pain. They don't want a knee replacement. They've lost their balance because of neuropathy. Focus on that and then introduce stem cells at the lecture, later. But, that's like the side thing.

Dean: I think even to this day, poor Bernice, 91 year old Bernice, she probably still doesn't know what stem cells are.

Dr. Yoo: Maybe not.

Dean: But she knew, if you're mailing Bernice a postcard that says, knee pain relief, she's going to be much more interested in that.

Dr. Yoo: Exactly.

Dean: Everybody understands that.

Dr. Yoo: Yeah. I need to nurture the lead instead of trying to get them right away by the follow-up, the book, maybe a consumer's guide, inviting them to future seminars, putting on a drip campaign, email and snail mail. So, they're going to come when they're ready, which could be near future.

Dean: That's it.

Dr. Yoo: All right. That's great.

Dean: I like it.

Dr. Yoo: That was awesome. You're the eyes behind my head that I didn't see a lot of stuff.

Dean: Exactly. Yeah. I get to look at it from a consumer perspective. That's the kind of thing that I always look at things. How would they see it?

Dr. Yoo: All right. Great. Send me the link where I can get that book started, as well. Okay?

Dean: I will. Absolutely. Thanks Phillip.

Dr. Yoo: Bye Dean. Appreciate it. Bye-bye.

Dean: And there we have it, another great episode. I'm such a big ... Every time we see things like this, every time I see people using workshops as a way to start a relationship with people, then when we talk about the idea of making it easier for people to respond, and only focusing on turning an invisible prospect into a visible prospect, how the long term ramifications of that are incredible. But, it also helps the short term, because not only do we get more people responding, that gives us more opportunity to engage with people and to invite them to the exact workshop that you were going to just count on the postcard, or the print ad to get them to attend. Double win there. You get more people and ultimately more people end up coming to your workshops, just like the email that I read from Melton.

There we have it. If you want to continue the conversation here, you can go to morecheeselesswhiskers.com. You can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book. You can be a guest on the show by clicking on the, be a guest link. If you'd like to write a book, like the ones we talk about here, I have a whole team of people standing by to help you write and get your book out into the world, at 90minutebooks.com. 90, the number 90, minutebooks.com. That's it for this week. Tune in next time and we'll hatch even more evil schemes. Have a great week. Bye-bye.