Ep100: Cody Burch

There are many ways to find potential customers, but taking a moment to think through the most effective way can multiply your results.

Today on the More Cheese, Less Whiskers podcast we're talking with Cody Burch. I've met Cody a couple of times at Nick Kusmich’s events and he's what you would call, an expert funnel builder.

He has a really great process that I love the name of, called the ‘One Hour Funnel’ because it promises a big benefit and you know exactly what you're going to get at the end of it. We had a great conversation about this philosophy of making things as convenient as possible for people.

We talked about how he identifies leads right now, and how he uses webinars as a way to get in front of people in his own funnel process. We talked about the idea of using a book or gift card to turn people from invisible prospects to visible prospects as a multiplier for his webinar, always driving towards doing something for people as opposed to showing people how to do something.

This call went so fast and we really got into the depth and psychology of what's going on in the minds of people, and how to best use the different approaches to generating leads.

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 100

Dean: Cody Burch.

Cody: Dean Jackson.

Dean: How are you sir?

Cody: Doing fantastic. How are you today?

Dean: I am great. It's allergy season here in Florida. Hopefully my voice will hold up. Where are you calling from?

Cody: I'm calling from Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Dean: Good, that's early for you. I'm excited. Today, this is one of my favorite days. I always look at these, I never know what we're going to get. It's always fun to hatch some evil schemes. What's the Cody Burch story and what kind of schemes are we going to hatch today?

Cody: Yeah, I'm real excited about this as well. It's going to be great. Let me bring you up to speed on where I'm at and how we arrived on this conversation today. My background is in the speaking industry. I used to work for a company that helps speakers, which makes sense with the direction I'm heading. I did a lot of the marketing for them, email marketing, landing pages, marketing funnels, sales funnels, technology, those types of things. As part of that company as that company grew, I started to do some consulting and coaching so we'd bring people in, high level people that I really admired. Then we would hatch our own evil schemes with them and say, "Now go implement this thing." They would look at me like a deer in headlights and say, "I don't know how to implement this.

Cody: I thought, "Well that's interesting, these people. I wonder just like I'm serving this company that I was working for. I wonder if I could serve other people like this that would need help with this type of stuff. That was my thesis, 2016. I jumped from that company and started my own marketing agency helping people do what I did for the other company doing email marketing, marketing funnels, Facebook ads, those types of thing. That started January of last year, 2017. It was great. My thesis proved correct and I was able to help a lot of people and start my marketing agency on that side. It was really awesome. What that did was marketing funnels and Facebook ads was the primary offers that I made for people. Throughout that, I really codified a way that I was doing things on the funnel side and the ad side and was able to ... What I'm doing now is taking the way that I was doing funnels and making a product tied service. That's what I wanted to chat with you about today is where I'm at-

Dean: Oh nice.

Cody: Then a little bit more background about that, there was a friend of mine, an entrepreneur she had fired her marketing agency and she did her own funnel. We were just having a conversation. I said, "Yeah, what was that process like for you?" She said, "It was awful. It took forever. It took 30 hours to make this thing." I thought, "Well that's not how that should go. The actual doing of the thing shouldn't take that long.  Here's how I do it. I do this and then this and then this. It's great." "Oh that's really amazing. You should share that with more people." Then I hired a contractor to help me fulfill some of the funnel stuff and I said, "Welcome to the agency. Here's how we do funnels and here's the playbook." He's like, "This is really easy."

Cody: I was like, "That was the whole point. I wanted to make the funnel stuff as easy as possible so we could predictably put people in and if they had a predictable result on the back end." Then I started to think this could maybe help even more people. I started a beta group in February.  What that meant to me is I put a post out of Facebook and said, "I'm doing this thing, brainstorming how I can help entrepreneurs build marketing funnels with my process. A lot of you are aware of what I do so anybody who wants in." I thought I'd get about 20 people and over 40 people signed up for the beta group. Which is cool, but only about 20 were engaged and of the 20 only 12 were hyper engaged, which allowed me to really flesh out how I could teach and what the framework was and what the process was.

Dean: Sure.

Cody: That thing is called the One Hour Funnel.

Dean: I like it.

Cody: That's what the process is called. Yeah, thank you. I did the beta group in February, filmed it in March, put it all online in April and then May came and went and then you and I are having a conversation today about it. That's my background and my digital marketing expertise of what I had been focusing on, trying to take this new thing the One Hour Funnel to serve a lot of people.

Dean: I love it. That whole thing is really about you taking the process that I take of taking something that's very complex and breaking it down to make it as easy as possible on the person who's actually going to be using it. It sounds like a similar process to our 90 Minute Book. When you put a number on how long something actually takes, it says so much even in the thing. One Hour Funnel, it just says so much. It tells you, it's going to take an hour and you're going to get a funnel. That's just like, "Okay, that's what I'm looking for. I'll give you an hour to do that." Very cool. I like that. You know what was kind of interesting, was as you were describing how you set up that beta group it sounded just like a nine word email type of thing just to your list. "Hey, I'm doing this, would you like to join us?" That's a pretty cool way to get things rolling.

Cody: Yeah, I've actually met you a couple of times out at Nickolas Kusmich's workshops.

Dean: Okay, now I put a face to who you are. Now I know exactly who you are. Great. There we go.

Cody: I've got my super signature in full effect and my email signature and I haven't sent many nine word emails, but love the methodology of that kind of conversation. "Hey, I'm getting together with entrepreneurs, let's brainstorm how we can build funnels faster. Anybody want in on that? That's how I mark the beta group heavily influenced by that conversational approach.

Dean: I love it. Cool. Where are we at now then? What do you see as what's working and what's the big opportunity?

Cody: I tried, I did a halfhearted launch in April via a webinar to pull traffic. Running an agency hasn't lent itself to me getting a big list. I just have a high touch, higher ticket, five to six clients a month workload so I don't have a list. I think I made this thing. I think it's for people who like to build funnels, so I did a webinar that was about ... I think I called it the Fast Funnel Framework. Hey, if you're wanting to do this thing, I'm going to show you how to do it better, faster and more predictably and show you the three secrets to doing this. I did that webinar and it was tough. I got expensive registrations and then the sign up rate was normal. At the time I just wanted to just sell a course. I'll just sell the course for 500 bucks or I forget what the price point was, 300 bucks, just to prove that people would give me money for it.

Cody: That didn't work. The registrations were expensive, but nobody bought it. I paused for a minute and thought okay, maybe I should have a list and maybe get really clear on who this thing is for. The nefarious plan that I hatched, is in May I went live on Facebook, which is brand new for me. I went my first ever Facebook Live in April announcing this thing. Then in May I said, "I'll just demystify this whole thing and show that I have a process that's predictable and repeatable. I'm going to live every day on Facebook and build a funnel. I called it a Funnel a Day in May. I just built these marketing funnels live on Facebook. I just wrapped that up. I did it for 31 days in a row. The plan of that to be to get people interested in paying attention. I can retarget the people that watched some of those videos to now take me up on an offer.

Cody: I think my big opportunity and what I wanted to chat with you about today is how can we ... Number one, we can brainstorm who this might be for. Is it for eCommerce owners, is it for authors and consultants, maybe authors and consultants are two separate groups. Is it for funnel builders? Is it for ... Any type of person. Then also thinking about what the offer could be, because now I've got lots of videos and lots of funnels I've made for myself and lots of templates and downloads.

Cody: If I narrow it down to people who want to be building marketing funnels, that might be who this thing is for. Which I thought it was for a month ago, and now I'm not quite sure, it might be. I was going to ... I got informed about this podcast a couple weeks ago and thought, "Well let's talk to Dean about this before I go." I told my wife I'm about to push the sled over the hill. Before I do that I'll chat with Dean about is this the right way to do this? How can we serve these people and get them a result. Who's it for and how do we package it and we need to get them the best result that they can.

Dean: Well part of the thing is the problem and the thing, the good thing and problem about the word funnel is it's become this ubiquitous magical unicorn word that everybody thinks you just need a funnel, I've got to get a funnel. Everybody says, "Yeah, yeah. That's what I need is a funnel. Nobody is really specifically clear on what that means, they just think, "Oh, if I get this funnel, then magically money is going to show up in my bank account. It doesn't overcome the fact that you've still got to have an offer. You still have to have a result that you're creating for somebody. A funnel is literally just a good word to describe the step-by-step process of turning an invisible prospect into somebody that you're able to do business with and help them get a result. It's still at the front end of the before unit that we talk about. This idea of breaking your business into the before unit, the during unit and the after unit.

Dean: You have to really ... Everybody who seems to fetish-ize this funnel, this unicorn funnel they're very front end oriented. Everybody thinks that's the shortcut. That they don't really spend any time thinking about the core of it is really the during unit. What is it that this funnel is going to lead to. What is it that you're actually going to output for people. That's really where it comes down to the best thing. If you can be crystal clear on the outcome, then it's easy to find the people who want that outcome. That's your focus then. Let's talk about your specific thing then. We use it as an example to illustrate what you're actually offering here. What other people are going to need. Tell me about ... Let's say I buy into this. I'm all for it. What is the outcome that I get if I collaborate with you on my One Hour Funnel? I buy into this. I want a funnel, I've got an hour. How much money am I paying you and what am I getting?

Cody: The stories that I've been hearing from people, like my friend that I said took forever. There's been possible outcomes like, "Hey would you like a predictable system?" To every time you have an idea to generate leads or to sell a product, a physical product, a book or a service or anything, wouldn't it be great if you had a system to be able to get that idea in front of people in a way that made sense to them so they can see the thing that you made. I think a lot about the idea graveyard. There's all these ... I want to write a book and don't know how. A lot of entrepreneurs here, I want to do this thing and I'm not sure the path to get there. Like you said, it's a step-by-step hold your hand approach of the ideal sales process to get somebody to take the ultimate action you want and turn a stranger into a referral source or a raving fan or whatever.

Cody: A website can be seen kind of like a brochure, which is important. If you had a sales company and all your sales person did, let's say you're a car dealership is people walked into your lot, which is hard enough anyway to get them onto your lot and all you did was hand them a brochure, you'd probably fire the sales person. That's kind of what a website does, but you want the people that come onto the lot to take a test drive, and to kick the tires, and to talk to financing and then out of that some people will buy the car. What if we make that online, that thing is called a sales funnel. That's the hook, to own your marketing. To fire your expensive marketing agency. To not let this take all weekend or all month or six months or whatever. To not let your idea die.

Cody: Those are the types of things that people tell me why online marketing is frustrating to them or why it's confusing or why funnels are confusing or whatever are those types of things. The technology is hard or whatever. I just want to demystify the whole thing and say, "Actually when you have the process that I can teach you via this thing that I made for you, it doesn't have to be hard and all your ideas can come to life in an hour or less every time with a predictable system. The framework of, right now it's a course. But the framework of the One Hour Funnel system is three things, it's plan it, say it, do it. That's what I came up with. If you have the right plan, you know who you're going after. You know how you're going to serve them at the different levels of ways you want to get paid to serve them. That's module one or pillar one.

Cody: Pillar two is what do I say on these funnel pages? I give them really simple ... People get really stuck with, "What do I say?" I'm not a copywriter, but there's ways to talk to people that are easy and repeatable that you can use to get your idea out there and communicate that. Then the doing is click this and drag this and publish it. They might come into it thinking, "I want to build this faster." That's fine, you will learn that, but actually it's more about having the right strategy, approach, plan, map, market, and then the right copy, and content, and notations, and conversions et cetera and then the doing. That's what you would learn. How you would learn that could be an online learning experience. I've already got the whole thing filmed. I'm thinking now it should probably be at least from the beginning something with me. We can brainstorm those ideas together via weekly Zoom calls or something like that together. I'm not exactly sure. Did that answer your question how I would get people results? Is that too-

Dean: Yeah. I'm trying to figure, I'm buying into your promise. I'm buying into your premise here that I want a funnel and I've got an hour, that plus how much money is going to get me my finished funnel? Because the implication of this is that I'm going to start and in an hour I've got a funnel, right? Just like what we talked about with the 90-Minute Book what you get at the outcome of that is a book. The 90 minutes is we basically do all the stuff that's not talking for you. We do a 30 minute brainstorm and outline call where we get the title and the content of what you basically want to say. Then from that phone call, my team puts together the outline, comes up with some titles for the chapters. You have six to eight things that you're going to talk about or that are going to be the contents of the book. At the end of the 30 minutes we've got the title and the outline. Then we schedule a 60 minute interview that's like a podcast type of interview.

Dean: The way we frame it with people, is that you're going to be a guest on a podcast or a radio show and everybody listening is your ideal client. We're going to go through and interview you through this outline to fit underneath all of these chapter titles that we've got. Then once that 60 minutes is done, you're done. We do every other thing. We get that transcribed. We edit it, we design the cover. You don't just getting your ideas or approval for what you want on the cover. We do all the layout, put it up on CreateSpace, do everything that is not talking. At the outcome of your 90 minutes you get a book. Is that sort of what happening with One Hour Funnel? It sounds like you're teaching me, you're going to teach me the process of how to make a funnel in an hour. Then I just get the feeling it's going to be more than one hour before I actually get my funnel, my first funnel. Is that right?

Cody: Yeah, I see what you're saying. I'm teaching you the system to be able to predictably create, and bring your ideas to life in an hour or less. How I can do that is via ... If somebody is like, "Well, I'm brand new to marketing." In an hour I probably won't be able to get them to that finish line. I think the actual course content if somebody just jammed through the course, which if they binge watched the whole thing. It's two and a half hours, something like that of video content. Then they have the workbooks and the templates and the downloads. The output is they'll have systems to go make funnels in an hour. The way that they learn it, if they ponder their headlines for a day, then it's going to take more than an hour obviously. But I give them all the templates and worksheets to just take all of the guess work out of it and say, "Here's the way you should plan your thing out and then here's the things you put on the pages using these templates and prompts.

Cody: Then whatever it comes down to it, if they use the tool I use to build funnels is ClickFunnels. If they use ClickFunnels, they click a button and now they have my templates that I built and just change the colors and headlines that you picked in module two, if that makes sense. It's coming out of a plug and play Mad Libs approach to helping people own their marketing. Then have the system, now they go, "Cool, now I am ready to buy a book or I made this new cheat sheet I want to give away to try to build my email list. I want to go back to the One Hour Funnel system that I learned and use the worksheets again." Now that time it should probably take you 15 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever at that point. You have a system in place to know how to do it.

Dean: I got you.

Cody: Then you need to keep going back top that well to draw on that to get your thing out there.

Dean: Okay. Perfect. It's really, when I look at it. I'm not sure you've heard me talk about the how versus who things. What you're really showing people is how to build a funnel, so they build their skills that are necessary to do it. As opposed to being a who that builds the actual funnels, which is what you were doing in your old life, right? That's what you were doing for people, but it's higher ticket, and you're saying, "Let me show you what I do, so that you can do it yourself." That's really what we're looking at.

Cody: Correct.

Dean: Cool. Let's talk about how that is working now. When we look at the thing that you have to do now is to find the right people for that. You've got to now apply this process to yourself. The idea is how do you get people to raise their hand and turn those invisible prospects into visible prospects? You mentioned that the registrations were expensive, you were trying the front end of this. Walk me through what you were doing that way.

Cody: That initial angle, because I was and still am so close to it. It's kind of a cobbler's kids have no shoes situation. I'm teaching people this thing and also not totally certain on what I should try next. In my head it was for funnel builders, so I targeted people who liked funnel building tools and online marketing tools on Facebook with ads, with a video ad into different ads posting this training. Then people would register, I guess the cost is irrelevant if they had bought it, it wouldn't have been expensive. If they turned into customers it wouldn't have been expensive registration. It was only expensive because nobody bought the thing.

Dean: How much were the registrations? What would it cost for-

Cody: They were $15, which is higher than I would see in the industry in other spaces.

Dean: Of course.

Cody: I don't know. Totally cold traffic to this stranger guy from this brand new Facebook page, from this brand new product-

Dean: Right. It's this new person trying to make a splash in the marketplace, so yeah.

Cody: It was around the whole, the whole angle and the hook was around funnels. Like, hey building funnels? Want to learn how to do it faster? Sick of it taking forever want to just own this? That again might be, in the world, these invisible prospects there might be people that go yes I am, I have a desk job and I'm working on building funnels it takes forever, I want to learn your system to build it faster.

Dean: Yeah.

Cody: My intuition is, I mean of course there are those types of people, but then I thought maybe that's not the angle. That was all around funnels?

Dean: The offer was for a webinar.

Cody: Oh, correct, yeah. I'm doing a free training, it's called the Fast Funnel Framework, I'll show you how to get this thing done that I think you want. I'll show you how to do it faster.

Dean: Yeah.

Cody: Maybe people want to learn how to build funnels faster, but a totally different angle might be well I have an idea, I want to take it to the marketplace or I have a Shopify store, but I don't really know how to optimize when people come into the store. How to say well we can make that a funnel and upsell or I have an idea. Like me, I have an agency but I want to try to sell a course. You need a funnel for that thing.

Dean: What you were getting when you look at it, this is like immediately we could get your cost per lead down by offering a book on the front end as opposed to a webinar. The way that people have to respond to a webinar is they have to, first of all be interested in the information, the topic of the webinar, but then they also have to be willing to sit through a webinar and they have to be available Tuesday night or whenever the webinar is scheduled. It's not so much their desire for the information that causes the registrations to be high, it's their unwillingness or unavailability to show up at a particular time for something, right? I think that this whole idea of the trend is moving away from scheduled, like show up at this time kind of thing.

Dean: I think that that's going to be a problem long term. We're definitely in every area of our lives progressing towards not having to show up for anything at any time. It would almost be ... There was a great article in The New York Times a few weeks ago that was titled, it might've been a few months ago now, titled The Tyranny of Convenience. I'd recommended, you could just do a Google search on that, The Tyranny of Convenience and it's a New York Times article talking about how convenience wins. Convenience is the most underrated power in existence and it trumps everything. When we look at it now that when we move towards this that the idea right now of having to show up on your couch in front of your TV at a particular time to watch a show seems ridiculous.

Cody: Yeah.

Dean: Right, the fact that it's almost seems, and the word they used in the article was that it almost seems undignified that you have to show up at a particular time to watch something, right? That's the way we're going that we were an instant society. I can get any product I want in the world delivered to my house at the very latest tomorrow morning, and if I live in the city I can probably get it in an hour.

Cody: Yeah.

Dean: Right, so this idea of delay for something is crazy. If you take the same information and offer it as a book that I can download right now, that makes sense to people. Right? I've got their attention right now and as long as I'm compelling that I want, all I want for this particular part of the funnel, all I want for this particular part is to identify people who are leaning in and interested in this particular topic. Right, like if we look at ... I always use concentric circles as the example here. You've chosen, whenever you run a Facebook ad, or a newspaper ad, or a magazine ad, or postcards, whatever it is, the outermost ring of the circles is the total audience that you've chosen. You selected, what kind of selects did you do in Facebook to propose come into this webinar app too?

Cody: Yeah, that ad spin was around marketers, I mean guys like me. That's where we got people like me who think like this. It was marketers, funnel builders-

Dean: Perfect. So you built a total audience, a potential audience of how many?

Cody: It was, I don't remember, I do try to do audiences around a million, one to two million on Facebook.

Dean: Okay, so you've got an audience of one to two million people, and you ended up then, the people that actually saw your ad are the next ring in. It was some number smaller than one million that you were about to actually reach, right? You showed up in their funnel, not in their funnel, their newsfeed and you made an impression on some number smaller than a million people. Then the next step of this is that you got registrations for your webinar, right? It cost you $15 to get somebody to that point, right? So there's a big gap between the number of people who saw your ad and who registered for the webinar, because if you got it for $15 you're probably ... That's probably less than a .3% response probably, right?

Cody: Right.

Dean: Then you look at this idea of if you were able to offer the same information, if you had a book called The One Hour Funnel and the subtitle was How to Use a Fast Funnel Framework to whatever the title of your webinar was as the subtitle of the book. You could click to download it right now. You're going to get way more people. You're probably going to get those for $3 as opposed to $15, right?

Cody: Right.

Dean: That, what you've got now is you've created a subset that you own now, right, that you've got a way to communicate with that group for a longer period of time. If somebody shows up in your newsfeed or you show up in somebody's newsfeed, they see this idea, they see the webinar, they don't want to or can't make it to a webinar right now and they choose not to opt in, you don't know that they were interested.

Cody: Right.

Dean: Right. I look at it that it's really about ... I call it separating the compelling from the convincing. In order to get somebody to take an action like come to a webinar, excuse me, you have to ... You have a uphill kind of battle. If somebody registers for the webinar and then they don't show up because you probably only get 30% of them that actually show up on the webinar, what was your show up rate?

Cody: Yeah, it was about that, 25, 30%.

Dean: Yeah, so you look at that so it's even further now. It's like only that group of people actually got your message. The others are not any further ahead, but they feel like they've gone off the program. They feel like they missed this and now subconsciously they have to build up these reasons that oh I must not have really wanted that or yeah I chose to not go to that. Right, as opposed to keeping people like incrementally moving forward. It doesn't feel or register as a rejection. That's a strong word to use, but it's essentially they, deep down they let you down on that commitment in a way. They registered, they signed here to say yeah I want to come to this, and then they didn't show up. In order to justify that we have to subconsciously prop up the reasons for why we didn't.

Cody: Right.

Dean: It sounds harsh, but it's really there's so much going on below the surface that it's really, that's what's making all the decisions. If we can ... The fact of a book as a way to get somebody to raise their hand and indicate to you that they are interested in this, that's a win. Now if you could build your list and then you showing you just built 31 funnels. You've got over a period of time, you've got that as an asset right now that you could expand on that, amplify that, show the different things. You probably built funnels for lots of different kinds of companies, right? Lots of different examples of funnels.

Cody: Yeah, it was some for me, some for people I work with, some in my network and then I put an application out. I ran some ads to it, I said hey I'm doing this so if you want to pay attention here's how you can access these videos I'm doing and if you want, if you're stuck I'll build one for you, click here to apply. If it's a good fit I'll pick you out of the audience and I'll do it for you. I did that maybe a third of the time. It was for strangers so they had to fill out an application.

Dean: There's nothing like that. That's what More Cheese Less Whiskers is, that's that model in a way right of that it's improv theater in that you're building a funnel for somebody you don't know anything about. You may or may not have met them before. Like us, we met at Nick's thing, but we don't really know each other. I know about your business, but that becomes, then, you've got this framework that's going to be helpful for people and hopefully that the funnels that you built were a win for them and that that's great. It wasn't even so much that you're not setting up the results of the funnel so much as the mechanism of it. That you're showing how much easier it is to build using this process. That's really what you're ... It's a faster, more convenient way to actually turn the ideas that you already have into the mechanism of a funnel as opposed the ideas of coming up with the better ideas kind of thing.

Cody: Right.

Dean: Right. There's absolutely a role for that, but getting back to it I look at it that at sometimes ... I end up, I sound like a broken record sometimes in that, in driving people to a book. People they think well isn't that convenient because he has a company that helps people write books. Imagine that. But the truth is that it's the thing that gets the highest response. If you can use something that will get people to indicate ... This is what we really want is that we're looking for something that gets people to indicate future interest in something by taking a present action today. Another example I use is my girlfriend owns a studio in Winter Haven here that does eyebrows and lashes for women. It's like a beauty studio and micro-blading for eyebrows is a big thing.

Dean: These women spend like $500 to get their eyebrows micro-bladed. It's like a permanent thing. Rather than run an ad that tries to convince people of the process or do it, because it's building its own momentum. People who are hip to micro-blading, they know what it is and they know they want it, but they may not be ready yet. They may be saving up for it, or they may be thinking about it, or going to do it at some point. What we offered on the Facebook ads was a $100 gift card that is the equivalent of 20% off, right? But the difference between 20% and $100 gift card is amazing because in order to redeem, or in order to get the benefit of 20% off ad offer, the only way you can get that is to buy right now, right? You get 20% off.

Dean: What you get with $100 gift card is that you can say, oh I want to do this, I know I'm going to, and this will be very useful for me at the point that I decide to actually get my eyebrows micro-bladed. We run an ad like that and get opt-ins for $1.50. It's not necessarily ... I look at it that in most situations where if that makes sense it's a great thing to do. If it's already a product and somebody knows what it is and what they want it, at some point being able to give them the opportunity to become a visible prospect. Now we know, because especially if you're doing something with a local business that is a retail business or somewhere that you've got a limited audience. We took a radius of 15 miles around this studio here and all the women from 30 to 60.

Dean: It's like a limited audience, let's say, but by doing that I've been able to build her a list of 1,500 people who are all women who have now $100 gift card in their hope chest for the day that they're ready to get their eyebrows micro-bladed, but we're able to engage with those people by email. The way that the process works is that people download the gift card, we connect with them by email and engage with them in a dialogue. Many of them schedule to have their eyebrows done right now. Others say I'm not ready yet, or I'm saving up, or I definitely want to do this in the Fall or whenever. We've got this list so that in the last six months being able to, 40 days later send them an email that says, hey are you still interested in micro-blading for your eyebrows and 23 people raise their hand and say yes, yes I am.

Dean: Then at the beginning of May sending out a message saying would you like to get your eyebrows done this month? 16 people say yes, yes I would like to get my eyebrows done this month. Then sending out a couple of weeks ago a message to people saying eyebrow model and then saying, "Hey Cody, I'm shooting a training program over the next couple of weeks and I need a couple of people who would be willing to video the process of doing their eyebrows so I can use it in this training program. If you're in town and you've got time over the next couple of weeks and you'd be willing to let me video it, I can do your eyebrows for $199." More people then sign up and say oh yeah, me, me, me. That is such a ... That becomes the gift that keeps on giving as opposed to having to constantly run an ad to rereach the people in the general audience with a 20% off offer that they will redeem when they're ready, you know?

Cody: Yeah.

Dean: I look at a webinar as the 20% off offer. The only way to get the benefit of the webinar is to come right now. I either register and come to the webinar and get the benefit there, or I don't register for the webinar and I don't get the benefit. Having a book called the One Hour Funnel and raising my hand for that indicates that I'm interested in that and then you can still invite everybody that downloads the book to come to the webinar. You don't even call it a webinar, it's like hey I'm getting together with some people on Thursday to talk about the Fast Funnel Framework, would you like to join us?

Dean: That model right there, because now you can engage with people and find out, well what business are you in? If they're a person who is in a specific business versus I'm in the funnel building business, if it's somebody who ended up coming that they've got a specific business that they want to build funnels for themselves and you've built one of the 31 funnels that you built was specifically related to theirs, you can say, "Oh wow I just built a funnel for chiropractors." Now that becomes then this way of moving people through that process.

Cody: Yeah, I love it. It makes a ton of sense. On the mechanism of the book, are you talking about the ... I would love to write a book, in fact I spent quite a bit of times on 90-Minute Books, yesterday, it was a couple days ago, and it's amazing. Are you talking about like a free, for a lack of better word-

Dean: Yeah.

Cody: Like free PDF download that they could just access immediately and on the thank you page and it's maybe nothing or it's maybe that invitation to say hey I'm getting together with people like you at this time if you want to know a little bit more.

Dean: No, I go ... If you look at 90MinuteBook.com is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. We've got two different websites, so we have 90minutebook.com is the landing page that we use for any of the ads or anything that we're running because the only option at 90MinuteBook.com is to download a copy of the book, right? It's just the super simple ultra-focused landing page. The same thing that I do for emailmastery.com. It's just the book, you're in the right place, what's your name and email address? That gets the highest response rates of anything that I've ever tried. When I look at that, then as soon as they opt in at 90MinuteBook.com, they immediately go to a page that, here's the download right there, and then it's immediately into here's how we can help you get your first book written and published in as little as 90 minutes. I explain the whole process to them and it ends with, click here to start your book. We present the whole offer to people right there because I know that they may be the only opportunity that we have with people.

Cody: Sorry, go ahead.

Dean: No I was just going to say I want to get my main thing out to people, and by the way it's exactly the same email that we send them so they're getting the message. But now they're in my world and we have the opportunity to, the next day to try and engage people by saying, asking them what business they're in, or what's your book about, or rotating around see who's willing to engage in a dialogue.

Cody: That makes total sense, I'll take a look at that. What I was going to say is I really have enjoyed Frank Kern's podcast, I know you were on the Self Milking Cow which I thought was extremely informative and helpful, that episode’s concept, but so going through his funnel so to speak of like he had the worksheet on the thank you page, click here to get the worksheet, click here to subscribe to the podcast. He says something like every week I screen a master class which is an on demand webinar or whatever. I went through that and I was like this is a really nice way to communicate I felt as a consumer of his content and products and things, I thought this was a really nice transparent, matter of fact to interact with me to me the thing I'm looking for. You're kind of saying the same thing via this process.

Dean: Because it's so much more valuable for you to have that list. Wouldn't it be better, you'd be better off instead of getting $15 webinar registrations to get five times as many $3 opt-ins.

Cody: Correct.

Dean: Because they're in the same pool, right? They're a subset of the same group of people.

Cody: Right.

Dean: We've seen this work on so many different levels, even for newspaper ads or live workshops, or newspaper ads, or anybody doing anything like that. The main thing that we want to do is that especially when you're trying to attract invisible prospects, the thing you want to do more than anything is at least get somebody to be a visible prospect. By that I mean now you've got a way that you know a specific person rather than one of this million person audience.

Cody: Right. What's your opinion on, as they flow through this process and I could say cool what business are you in, or what's your funnel going to be about, or what's the main problem you're trying to solve with your funnel via email follow up sequence conversations? The easiest way for me as the guy that made the thing, the One Hour Funnel System is they just buy it and they go through it and they consume it and get great results-

Dean: Sure.

Cody: But that might not be what they want. What's your opinion on bundled? I have so many assets I could give as far as templates, trainings, videos, PDFs, there's the core thing that I made which is the workbook, and the videos, and the training, and then the core templates they need to not get overwhelmed. I could stack a bunch of other stuff on top of that, but something like the ... I call it group coaching for a lack of a better word, but what if once a week I got together with people that were going through the course to do Q&A and live jam sessions and take a look at their funnels and review what they've come up with, review their copy and price tier, but I'm trying to think of, at this point I don't care what's convenient for me. I'd love to get people the most amazing results saying the most amazing things about the system I've come up with. What do you think are attractive ways I can bundle the offer so to speak?

Dean: Part of it would be, I would definitely be looking at that using these tools and this methodology that you have to have, as an option, people who can actually build the funnels for me so that you give people both options. That they can start off with if you want to learn how to do it we've got all the tools and the program there, or, excuse me, all the way up to we can literally build the funnel for you.

Cody: Right.

Dean: So you give people that option.

Cody: That's part of why I did this thinking, like I mentioned to tie this all together, like I don't have a very big list. I serve these certain type of people, get this certain type of result, and this could be an interesting front end for those people that go through it. Go, "Okay I got it, I understand how to do this stuff now and I'm stuck, or and I need some help." I say, "Great, we have that solution, that's my nine to five anyway." That's not the long game, but the option's there. I've got the system, and the team, and the infrastructure to help people get to the finish line if they don't want to actually go click the buttons and do it themselves.

Dean: Yeah, the opportunity to have somebody do the technical bits. Even, there's so much stuff that if somebody really knows what the copy is, what the words are, what they want to stay, that's one element and that takes far less time than ... For most people fumbling through the technical aspects of putting all the pieces together is often the stumbling block. If they just had ... It gets back to this whole Self Milking Cow idea that if the milk of the funnel is what's the offer, what's the words, what are we ... What's the architecture of it, all of that, but the actual putting all the pieces together, all the keystrokes that it takes to technically set that all up is an obstacle for most people.

Cody: The way I categorize how they can get the result is you can go self-paced, on your own, on demand. If you put these resources I've made for you, you could go with me, maybe we kick off the first whatever Thursday of the month and we do these cohorts of people going through the course together where they watch the videos and then we go live. Or bucket three is I guess I can walk you through that one on one, the done for you model where I do interview you. Basically I interview for module one, interview you for module two and get really clear on that and then my team will go build the team will go build the thing for you, is that.

Dean: Right, for you what you ultimately ... Yeah, because it's not that different than the 90 Minute Book in a way, right, except that what ... When you look at it that if we can get your promise in alignment with the message, like when I say the 90-Minute Book, what that means is that your time involvement in getting the book done is one hour or 90 minutes. If you could get to where you could, through a series of interviews with people or whatever it is, that their input to the actual funnel is one hour and by using a funnel team kind of thing that puts it all together, there's a really fun way of making all that happen.

Dean: If you were to list out the step by step process, like a timeline of what goes into making a funnel, you would realize which of the things are really only able to be done by the entrepreneur, the marketer or the person who's doing that and which of the things could be done by other people. Some of it is what Wyatt Woodsmall calls adaptive challenges. The adaptive challenge is what are you going to say, what are the words going to be here? If you've got frameworks and templates that get them 50%, or 60%, or 80% of the way, like fill in the blank sort of, funnel frameworks like that like sounds like you do. That if you can have somebody go through the thinking process with somebody where they don't have to actually use their opposable thumbs.

Dean: If you could have somebody who could walk through this process and get the adaptive stuff for somebody enough to actually then go and build it because I bet that it probably takes five times as much time to do the technical stuff or to learn how to do the technical stuff as it does to have somebody extract the meaningful stuff, which is exactly the process that we use for the 90-Minute Books. I have a team of 11 people that are specialists in one role of this speedy process of creating a book. It's funny because once you figure out what the process is, like our team, our inspiration for really streamlining and building the timeline to get the books done was on YouTube there's a video that compares Formula One pit stops from 1950s to 2013.

Dean: In the 1950s pit stop they show the car coming in and they show the guy hammering the tires off and changing the tires and they're filling it up with gas and washing the windshield and you're doing all these things and it takes 67 seconds for the pit stop and then fast forward to 2013 and the car pulls up and in 2.9 seconds four tires changed, filled with gas, up, down, off it goes. That process, that's what we were looking for, for the 90-Minute Book. How do you optimize the process of building a funnel like that so that people can be trained in and or fill specific roles so that you can deliver to somebody for as a push button the output of a funnel that took them an hour of ... Is an hour thinking about this and thinking about it is going to be better spent for them than five hours of frustration trying to figure out how to get this One Hour Funnel done.

Cody: That's very true. I think I was hoping for it or something like that. I wasn't even thinking that. Everything you just said is true, number one. As easy as it is with us with whatever our expertise is we get caught up in our technobabble of our thing and how good we are at it and how oh it's easy, you just do this. Other people that aren't us they're like actually it's incredibly difficult, everything you just said you've honed over the last nine years or whatever so it's not easy.

Dean: Yeah, right.

Cody: If I can take all that away, either as the main offer or as one of the service packages like hey want to just do this over literally an hour it's like where we just interview you and you answer some questions ahead of time, come to the table prepared. I extract what I need from your brain and then I don't know two weeks later, voila, your thing is alive and we can drive traffic to it. That would be different than what I'm thinking right now which is really interesting.

Dean: Right, right. That's part of the thing. That's a life lesson over 30 years, or let’s say 25 years of training people how to do stuff. I went through that same thing of that you figure out how to do something and then you want to just show people and say, look I figured out how to do this, look how easy this is. But they still have to learn and nobody has time or inclination to want to learn stuff, but everybody, we're definitely ... You can never err on the side of making something too convenient.

Cody: Yeah.

Dean: That's lead in I feel and the truth is that you don't have ... Like I don't fill any single role in the 90-Minute Book. It's a completely separate self-managing team that runs that business, but it's my business, and it's my idea, and under my umbrella, but I'm not involved in any of the process. I will be ... I'm a guest on the, they do a podcast that I come on sometimes. I'm a cheerleader, I'm a rainmaker, but the whole thing is self-sustaining. I think that that's where if you could get it to that where it's your process, your things, and they may if you get the right team around you, they may innovate and improve the process that you have, you know?

Cody: Right, that's awesome, I've got one last question.

Dean: Time flies doesn't it?

Cody: It's been amazing, yeah, it really does. In your ... So I have, the thing I said a few minutes ago, I can still send the people a course, I can show them how to do it, I can do it with them, or I can totally do it for them. What you and I just kind of jammed on for a minute was me doing it for them or me having the system to just totally do it for them which is now back to the agency side, but in a more predictable, systemized, automated fashion that doesn't need as much of my time. My question is does a course play a role, does it add any value to say hey if you buy this One Hour Funnel Book in a Box 90-Minute Book type thing, You can lifetime access to the course to do if you have a team or want to see how this whole things works-

Dean: Yeah.

Cody: In what way does that serve, if any? I asked for the time, not how the watch was made and I don't know if I'm showing people how the watch was made like yeah I don't really care about that.

Dean: Some people may want to know. We look at it that, I just look at time to the outcome as an advocate for the end user. I could show people how to write books and create a course on that on how to do a 90-Minute Book, but it's almost like it would take ... It would be almost as expensive to show somebody how to do it than it is to actually just do it for them. Especially when you have a single-use output that's coming from it. Whereas, because I look at both sides of this. I have a program called Email Mastery and that is an ongoing, like building a community of people where I'm showing how to write emails that convert, right. How to use conversational conversion and teaching all of my frameworks for emails. That skill, you're going to be able to apply to all kinds of different things. There's that, that's a valuable skill to know versus having an email agency where we'll just write emails for you, because that's a skill that you're going to use again and again.

Dean: Having a book, it's an execution thing. It's cheaper to just have us do that and it's cheaper for us to offer that as a done for you. We've got the economies of I've already got 11 people standing by rather than showing you how to do it and then you have to go on ... Sometimes, listen, there are people who want to do things on their own. They love to figure out how to do stuff and it's almost like this challenge for them to figure out well how can I do this book on my own for less than $1800. I could go to Fiver and get a thing, I could find somebody to interview me, I could find somebody to get the transcript, I could edit it myself. I could do all these things. If you take all the time involved in that and put any amount of value on your time, it's like disproportionately, ridiculously more expensive, you know?

Cody: Right, right. Got it. Just give me time to think about and I need a book it sounds like.

Dean: And then you need a funnel for your book, that's the thing.

Cody: I need a funnel for my book. I've built lots of book funnels so that would be easy. I'll go to the will on that one.

Dean: I think that if you decide that book, that right away you would see a difference in the number of leads that you generate. I look at that that's the only purpose of the ad is to turn an invisible prospect into a visible prospect. I look at the webinar as a lead conversion process more than a lead generation process.

Cody: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Cody: Awesome.

Dean: I love it. Anything else?  Cody, that was fun.

Cody: Yeah it was, thank you so much man this has been great, I really appreciate it.

Dean: Awesome. Keep me posted because I'm very interested in how this all plays out.

Cody: Definitely I know our paths will cross in the future, I'm sure, and I will definitely keep you posted. I'm really excited for what's coming. It's going to be great, thank you again.

Dean: Awesome, thanks Cody, bye bye.

Cody: All right, bye bye.

Dean: There we have it. Boy, what a great conversation because it really illustrates a lot of the things that we talk about psychologically. Here’s more evidence that using a webinar as a lead generator is an expensive lead generation proposition. $15 per registration which is not uncommon. When you look at it that using something that gets people to respond right now doesn't have to be a book. We mentioned how using a gift card or using something that I can get right now as a way of starting this process, that we immediately get three to five times more leads than offering a seminar, or a webinar which gives you more opportunity to engage in dialogue with people. That's really what we're looking for is how can we maximize the return on what we're doing on the front end, rather than just focus on what's going to optimize the first 30 days here.

Dean: Let's look at building a foundation for the next 30 months, that's really what's the most valuable thing that we can do here. Hope you enjoyed that conversation. Of course it sounds like the only solution to everything is to have a book and that's not ... I don't want it to come off like that that there's, that a book is the only thing. It happens that a book is the best thing that I have discovered for lead generation like that. I have a whole team of people standing by to help you create a book if that's what you want to do at 90minutebook.com and it's a good idea for you to go through and see how that process works if you're thinking about putting together a book. The whole purpose of using something that gets people to raise their hand in the beginning is the process of being able to communicate by email with them as soon as they do that.

Dean: It gives us more people that we can engage in a dialogue with and that's the foundation of the process that we talk about at emailmastery.com which is to compel, which is get people to raise their hand. Convince, which is educate and motivate, and collaborate which is now to offer to help them get the result that they're really looking to do. There's two things for you to look into, 90MinuteBook.com, eMailMastery.com, and you get to see two winning funnels in action just by going through that process. I don't charge any extra for you to see that winning funnel in working order. It's all there for you to take advantage of. If you want to be a guest on More Cheese, Less Whiskers, I'd love to hatch some evil schemes with you. You can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com, you can download a copy of the More Cheese, Less Whiskers book and if you click on the be a guest link that will let me know that you'd like to come on the show and we can hatch some evil schemes for you. That's it for this week, have a great week and I'll talk to you next time.