Ep130: Troy Assoignon

Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast we’re talking with Troy Assoignon who's calling in from Spain, but he's traveling all over the world.

He has a great desire to help people creatively. He’s very creative. He’s got a lot of experience in design, and he couples that with a knowledge and a great aptitude for copy.

When you combine marketing, copy and design, you've got a really great trifecta and you're going to see the evolution here. We started out trying to figure out who Troy works with or who he would like to work with. Then as we progressed in the conversation we get more and more clarity and I think by the end we had nailed down to a very specific outcome, a very specific segment of the market that he can help.

He was really excited about it. I love when we have this kind of outcome and I think this will be a really great conversation if you're in a similar situation, where you can do a lot of things, help a lot of people, but are having a hard time nailing it down to a specific group of people and a specific outcome.

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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 130


Dean: Hello Troy Assoignon.

Troy: Hello. Hello.

Dean: Hey Troy, it's Dean. How are you?

Troy: Mister Dean. Doing great. Great to connect man.

Dean: Awesome. I had a little difficulty dialing in there so thanks for hanging in.

Troy: I liked that intro music.

Dean: Yeah, Never Gonna Give You Up. Never going to give you up, just hang in there.

Troy: Oh man, that's wild. Surreal that we're actually connecting.

Dean: Awesome. Well, yeah, tell me what's goin' on. What's the Troy story here?

Troy: The Troy story. So I guess are we live right now?

Dean: Yes. We got a whole hour to hatch the some evil schemes for you.

Troy: I like evil schemes. So the Troy story. I'm actually from Winnipeg, Canada originally.

Dean: Nice.

Troy: I was a drywall contractor for ten plus years. Just plying in drywall, finishing interiors, taping, painting, finishing. That was kind of the old grind for many years. I wanted a way out. I actually came across your work, Joe's work, and Evan's work in 2013. So I ended up starting an entrepreneur society in Winnipeg, just local events, which turned me on to a lot of coaching. So background in graphic design as well, for many years, from like 12 years old or so, usually playing old Age of Empires on the computer. So yeah, 2015 I met my girlfriend actually online in our entrepreneur community and we ended up going through road trip to Florida, fell in love and I booked a one way ticket to Vancouver in 2016. Yeah.

So that was kind of my, I'm leaving drywall behind and then finally going all in. So been coaching full-time for now, well, since 2015. Did a lot of branding on the side and actually this past year, I think you know Jimmy from Agora.

Dean: I do, yeah.

Troy: So I've been working with Jimmy this past year. He's been mentoring us on copy and all that and just getting some things a lot tighter. So yeah, it's been, I guess, that's a little bit of my backstory. A little messy, all over the place there.

Dean: That's okay but who are you coaching and what are you helping them do?

Troy: So, currently, I think it's a bit of a broad spectrum of people. I've had finance clients, I've had dentists, I have XIT guy, a physical therapist as well. A lot of them are just looking for a lot of transition into new income. Potentially looking at the business model and really seeing where the gaps are. A lot of them aren't. They're kind of enjoying the business that they're building but they're really trying to ramp it up and I guess I've discovered recently, I've been playing in all sorts of industries to get clear. I like kind of playing in different spaces because it's fun and exciting.

But yeah, I would say the focus for a lot of people moving forward and I've hashed out a lot with Jimmy is like, getting people to transition from out from building to a business that they love versus a business that they loath because that was kind of a big thing in drywall contracting. Didn't like it personally myself and always knew there was much more out there. So yeah, I think it's a broad spectrum currently. It isn't very laser targeted to specific industry but a lot of it we focus on where's their model at, where's their gap and some people write and copy but I'm really realized a lot of people need copy. So I think that's going to be a big thing coming into my service offering.

Dean: Can you write copy?

Troy: Yeah. Yeah. So I've been working with Jimmy for some time the past year here and really wiring in our copy pretty well. I actually am using your naked truth formula quite often.

Dean: Oh, there we go. I love that. That's a good starter for sure.

Troy: It's great. I think a lot of people need that. Yeah. So yeah, it's been a bit of an evolution in the past, well, three years. We've been traveling while doing all this. Currently in Spain right now.

Dean: Oh congratulations, that's awesome. That's a good thing about having an online business, right? You can hook in to cloudlandia from wherever you are.

Troy: Cloudlandia. I love that.

Dean: Yeah, that's the world, right? I mean, you don't need to be on the mainland anymore. That's awesome.

Troy: Yeah, yeah. No, it's wonderful.

Dean: So, let's start with you then. What's your dream come true. What do you want for your business there? Sounds like you've got a lot of variety. You're geographically free. So what are you looking to do here? What's your,  if we start there.

Troy: Well I came to realize that I actually really quite enjoy copy. The research, the depth of it. It's fun and, to be honest, it's a skill. You can't just pick up copy overnight and I'm realizing some people that have tried to. I've seen pictures that have been made by clients even after I've run them through training and it takes a lot of understanding. So, I'm trying to find a nice mix between writing the copy, designing it as well, and potentially working with them through the conversion process because then I'm finding at first, you know, I didn't want to run the traffic with them but them I'm realizing they're up on a shit's creek without understanding any of their own traffic. So I guess what I'm trying to identify, because even going through your process activator, is like where people are at in a certain line and what they need at a certain time and because your profit activator made me realize that I don't really have a system of deliverables but I don't think everyone's a cookie cutter either so it's like I'm trying to find the balance in between those two.

Dean: Yeah, well something I find is that sometimes the best thing that you could look at is that something has to remain fixed, you know? That it's really difficult to zone in when the range of things that you can help somebody with is broad and varying and the range of people that you can help is also broad and varying. That it's hard to really explain what that is. Now, you can narrow it down even in to categories. Even if you're looking at, one of the challenges with being able to help anybody is that it's, excuse me, very difficult to articulate it in a way that seems specific enough for one person who needs it. So when you look at it, if I'm a real estate agent and I want to grow my business, it makes more sense to seek out someone who has experience and programs and result getting capabilities in that face, right? Compared to somebody who maybe, might be able to.

Now, I know that as a creative, like you are, like you gravitate to the creative space, so that means that you kind of have a probably great capacity for creating ideas and coming up with ideas and solutions and you love solving a new challenge kind of thing. But what that sort of ends up doing for you is that your kind of put in a position where every new client is an original work.

Troy: Yes, which can be a bit of a pain in the butt at the same time too. It's not scalable.

Dean: Yeah. Right. Right. That's exactly it's not scalable. There's no leverage in it, in a way and there's no equity that you're building in it.

Troy: Totally.

Dean: Because not everybody has the same, you know, solutions. But part of it, where you can exercise that creativity, is by setting up a constraint for yourself that allows you to exercise the creativity within a defined parameter. So what I mean by that is that you look at the eight profit activators as a construct, is a constraint that is a fixed system that I can bring now lots of variety to it. I can take any business and we can overlay the profit activators on top of it and they're always present but they're going to manifest differently, right? So, what I, if you notice, if we deconstruct what I do on every episode More Cheese Less Whiskers and what we've done for the first few minutes here, is that I start out with having you tell me, you know, who it is that you work with and so that didn't really give us specific clues, right? Like for profit activator one is select a single target market.

Now, so then we shift over to, well, what would be a dream come true for you, right? What is it that you wanna do? And so we can work with that and work backwards to then create a custom opportunity for you, right? So, when you look at it, is that important to you traveling around and having that geographic freedom that you can work from wherever you are?

Troy: Yeah, I think so. I think that's really important. Yeah. I mean we do like that we can about some things but at the same time being able to travel is super important.

Dean: Right and flexible schedule. How do you like your days to look? How much do you have available to work, right? What would be your ideal schedule?

Troy: Yeah, usually, honestly, we just lived in Thailand for the past year. It was, schedule was usually like six til one pm, take the afternoon off, do some work in the evening and then, kinda, do it all over again. I'd say it's like bursts of six hours because I find if I have to just stay there for eight hours, I don't get that much work anyways comparative.

Dean: Sure, yeah, and then what do you really like to do? What's your favorite thing to do?

Troy: I like the transformation in coaching. That's why I'm kind of in between both worlds a bit. I love copy because I love to see stuff that performs. Knowing that a piece of words that are put on a paper can actually move someone to action is so liberating. So, I think it's a mix between the two because, like I was saying to Jimmy, right now we have a solid base of clients. We get great results with what we're doing but solid base right now is about six people full time on a monthly retainer but I wanna move a lot more towards about ten on that end but then picking up, say, six letters per year. Like, decent letter, high performing, working with the client to actually figure out, more or less, not straight from bare bones because I want a bit more of an established businesses in the writing room that they're ready to turn on traffic or potentially are already running traffic. That's kind of the idea that I've been looking more towards because then I can still maintain a solid coaching base because I still enjoy the interaction of that and the excitement and the new ideas and different things. Obviously then those people can come into the writing room but I like the challenges of pursuits of just even changing copy that's performing a bit but really giving it that supercharge.

That's kind of been a bit of my vision because it's like they're already running traffic. They've already tried it. They can make sales. They can deliver because I've noticed I work with the traffic lady in Vancouver, as well, and the biggest problem is once we cure traffic is then they have sales problems and then they'll have customer service problems. So it's like I'm realizing it's like they need the full time at the same time too. They need the writing but they also need the guidance.

Dean: Yes and that's really great to have that recognition because it's true of any business, you know? That's really what we're saying there. Do you actually enjoy writing? Are you ABD or anything? Do you have a difficult time getting yourself to sit down and write or do you enjoy that? Does it come natural?

Troy: I'd say it comes pretty natural. The way we've built any of our following is just basically slamming the keyboard on social media for the past three to four years and video'd different things. So I've definitely enjoyed writing. It's fun and exciting but I can't say it's every single day I want to continuously turn out ten, fifteen letters here. I think it's more of a, how do I say, more luxury.

Dean: Right, I gotcha.

Troy: You know, yeah.

Dean: I gotcha. Yeah. Are you doing that for clients now? Do you triple pay you for copy right now?

Troy: Yeah I have one finance client right now that's paying me for it. We have another guy that we're writing for right away. Me and Jimmy are looking at doing a couple different things coming up here. He's been cheaping a lot of my work recently so yeah. So, it's been cool. It's crazy to see what the difference compared to last year. Really woo woo and unspecific and Jimmy's beaten in to me to get extremely specific.

Dean: Right. So you're getting it from every angle here.

Troy: Yeah, it's been cool. It's been enjoyable. I like it a lot and I like the setup, because the design aspect to that part I'm noticing is a huge lack in copy space. A lot of people write copy but nobody designs. I'll take it from Google Doc to full out design funnel. So it's like, I dunno. I think there's something there and I've been doing it for so damn long. Yeah.

Dean: A couple episodes ago I had a lady on from Portugal who was...

Troy: Cool.

Dean: Yeah. She was in marketing but her husband was a designer who designed, yeah, bottles for high end wine and spirits. I was suggesting to her, you know, that I would always advocate for any designer to take on this role of articulating the actual return on design. Somebody-

Troy: That's why I'm into coaching.

Dean: Yeah, somebody sent me, after that episode, somebody sent me a link to a study that McKenzie had just done on design and they found, they did studied public companies over several years, took a three year project to do this, and they articulated, yeah, the actual quantifiable return on design and it turns out that design led companies produce a 32% premium on top of their non-design led peer group. So companies like theirs, that started on the same path, and these ones took a design led approach and they do 32% more revenue and return 56% more money to shareholders. They do more revenue and they're more profitable.

Troy: That's phenomenal. That's really interesting.

Dean: By taking a design approach. So there's something there if you can, and especially when you're coupling design with direct response, if you can show that straight up direct response will work but then when you couple it with design, if you could show a 32% improvement or some measurable improvement, that would go a long way for you, you know?

Troy: Yeah, I love that because years ago I used to make websites and I realized that everyone would come to me for website logos and I realized what they really need is they just need clients. It's basically they wanted a website and a logo disguised as I need clients. So I actually convinced a lot of people to not make a website right away but now I'm realizing the higher value in more established individuals with that. Oh man, that's really cool.

Dean: And that may be a nice sweet spot for you in a way. You know, what I would love to see from you is to be able to pick a couple of lanes and really, sort of, build out your IP in that area, you know? To build out your protocols, your constructs, your systems that you can overlay on businesses, right? So that now your unique process is what is important more than, and when you create a process, you by definition, get to be the world’s leading authority on it.

Troy: I like that.

Dean: Right? Like that's the thing, I talk about my eight profit activators, is I'm the world’s leading authority on the eight profit activators. There's nobody who has spent more time applying or thinking about or working within that framework than me.

Troy: I really like that quiz by the way.

Dean: Right. Yeah. And you can see that as a diagnostic tool, that becomes a very useful thing to fuel a conversation with people.

Troy: It's really interesting. I noticed even that this year too, I always could never figure out.  I didn't just wanna be a marketer. Jimmy helped me realized that I focus on positioning because design plus copy plus marketing is positioning. So I created a couple similar, not similar frameworks, but I created a couple frameworks this year I need to flesh out more that different stages of position and repositioning and hmm, that's really cool. Because even business modeling too, when I see campaigns and stuff with the way ad costs and stuff are going, if you don't have a model that's going to support your front end and back end sales, it's literally a pipe dream for a lot of businesses that I've seen. So it's like, I think there's so much juice in the fact of just even looking at peoples' models but I also need to make a system around that.

Dean: Yeah and part of it, if you can really design and create total solutions for people, that can go a long way too, you know? If you think about it, I've really been an advocate for, and a beneficiary of, syndicating. Creating a system that works for a specific result for a specific group and then building a system for helping them get that result, right? So, I do a lot of that in the real estate world. All of the things that I have solved, I know what the big things that real estate agents want. I know they want to get listings. I know they want to multiply their listings. I know they wanna get referrals and convert leads and find buyers. So I've, over the last 30 years, been dedicated to providing the systems and the protocols that they can use to do those things and there's a lot of leverage in that. Because now when you're working with one, you're working with one person, you're working on something that is going to benefit thousands of people rather than just doing one on one, one off work.

Troy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's really cool. I've got to look at that and figure out what that actually is because-

Dean: Right, because you're in the valuable position that you can help a lot of people and you don't seem like you're married to any one of it yet. So if I could, kind of, encourage you to maybe guide your selection of picking somebody a category or type of person that would be suited for this indication, that would be a big win. You know? Whether it's attorneys or financial advisors or whatever it is that, if you've got a systematic way for them to solve the big problems that they need, especially when they're on a localized basis, where people are mostly consuming the product or service locally. That's a really like a franchise mindset, you know?

Troy: And I think it's important.  I really want to, I guess, move more out of the internet marketing realm as well. I've created all sorts of ebooks and formulas and different things. I have one right now that I created with Jimmy, it's Your Compelling Backstory. It's just a formula and how to tell an actual selling back story. I have that but I think it definitely need to be a lot more lasered down, like you were saying, to local because I think business owners that have no clue about internet marketing, there is so much potential in those realms.

Dean: Yeah.

Troy: So much but I'm not too sure which category I'm even in, should just chase after.

Dean: Right. Well, I think that, you know, you can't go wrong if you're designing anything and, again, I don't want to put thoughts in your head but just to give you suggestion if it fits that it's always going to be a welcome thing to help people get more business. I mean, that's really the thing.

Troy: I lost you there.

Dean: Oh sorry.

Troy: I lost you there when you said that help people get more and then it cut.

Dean: Oh, help people get more business is a great evergreen kind of recession-proof thing. No matter what people are always going to wanna get more business. So picking those things, you can go broad but narrow at the same time. You've probably heard me talk about our organizational purpose is that we help entrepreneur's make more money.

Troy: I love that. So simple.

Dean: Yeah but that means everything that we do has that, sort of, end result of that the outcome is going to be more money because that way you can, you know when you're creating money, you can charge proportionately to the value you create, you know?

Troy: That's a big thing to realize in coaching is if you're not bringing people back results, they will not come back. This past two years has been really focusing on the result realm and I've noticed that come back in tenfold.

Dean: Because you're a result getter. That's really then a thing, you know? So if that's a you know, even if you look at that as having, you've got a unique set of skills that you're naturally design oriented. You've taken, too, the copywriting so that marriage between the two is really makes you even more unique because there's lots of designers. There are lots of people who can make things look great.

Troy: Yeah but doesn't do jack.

Dean: Right and if you can take your knowledge of copy and your knowledge of design and meld it into influential design, you know, or persuasive design-

Troy: That's what I was always looking at in the beginning was making people more authority figures but then I realized a lot of coaches weren't doing a whole lack of things very well so kind of deterred me from that space because there was so much flash and bang versus actual results from them.

Dean: Right and doing personal promotion stuff or ego based things for them, that may make them look good or feel good that that's what they wanted but they're going to find out that that's not actually going to move the needle on their business, you know?

Troy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really cool. It's funny because even last night I was thinking about this with copy design conversion because you got to get it out, somebody has to design it but then it comes down to the tweaking and testing stage of which way it works, which check out page works, which is the best front end to offer, which is this. Because I like geeking out on the business model side of things as well and it's a lot more longer term like, it's like I want to work with less people for more cash, obviously, longer term because it takes almost everything I've got. It takes a lot of brainpower so I like that. Pretty cool.

Dean: Mm- hmm, and that's the thing where, if you start thinking like a scientist and start documenting everything you're doing here, to come up with some things that have, that is a hard won IP that you know that this combination wins across platforms or that this works. You know?

Troy: Mm- hmm, that's really cool. I like that. What are your thoughts because I think there's a lot of people that build businesses that they make them cash, that they really don't like the business. They like the thrill of starting it, just like I was in drywall. Like the thrill of starting it, you get going, you get going, you kind of get jaded by the industry, you make good cash but it's, I'm just noticing there's a lot of people that are middle 30's, early 40's, they want to transition out but they're not sure where. That's kind of been a narrative I've been really serious in and just the fact around building a business you love. Because we travel, that's a lot of our pictures on social different things. I wrote a sales letter, basically, on it. I'm just curious on your thoughts and insights around that whole category.

Dean: So what would you call the category?

Troy: Well, I guess it's almost transition but it's building a business they love but that makes some cash.

Dean: Yeah.

Troy: A great business that still leverage that, whether it's replacing yourself from the current business or just finding the skills that they're good at so they can transition online because I think we're going to see so many people transitioning online in the next 10, 20 years compared to anything we've seen.

Dean: Yes.

Troy: But I don't know.

Dean: Yeah, I agree with you. So that when you've got that helping people with a startup. Like going from nothing to making that transition. What you're working with, where you're available pool of compensation for you, for that, is coming from money that is stored up from that, right? That they don't have the money yet because they need to get their business going and so there's limits on what they can do. Now, if you take, like you mentioned, an existing business, that's already going, and you can overlay and create more money, that is where you get the opportunity to have a bigger impact.

Troy: Mm-hmm.

Dean: Right?

Troy: I like that so much.

Dean: And it's just an awareness that you can work with anybody but if you haven't nailed that down yet, why not work with the people at the highest level you can to be able to make the biggest impact that you can for the highest reward that you can.

Troy: Yeah, I like that a lot because I think the front end, to build the business you love is like enjoyable to the point where it can build me a solid income.

Dean: It is rewarding, yeah, but it's only got a ceiling. It's only going to be so profitable because people, they don't have the money.

Troy: The threshold, it's just not there.

Dean: Right.

Troy: Because we're looking at that this year. It's like, certain people have a threshold. It expires. That's interesting. Man, that's cool. I like that a lot.

Dean: Right but you look at somebody who's already got a substantial six figure business that is running their make your money but they've hit a plateau but they've hit some, you know, and you can take that to a million dollars, that's a bigger opportunity.

Troy: I like that because my dream long has been always just coming in, tweaking some stuff, changing a couple things up, they'd test it, run it, it performs, bingo.

Dean: Yes.

Troy: And it's like, because I've following J Abraham's stuff for the longest time and I that he did early on in his career and that's been a huge inspiration for me that I've been always, kind of, had gnawing at the back of my mind but I'm also never sure how the hell do I approach this too while I'm traveling. It's easier to do in person but you can run ads to stuff like that but I feel it's also there's so much relationship that has to come before that too.

Dean: Yeah. Now you start to look so, if I'd look at it, knowing what you know right now, the experience that you've had, what is it that you are the most confident about your ability to create a result for?

Troy: Okay. It sounds funny but I can pinpoint gaps quickly of communication with people. Like the way they communicate referrals. The way they communicate getting testimonials. The way they communicate their offer. I think that's been the biggest thing that's gotten a lot of my coaching clients results. Like how deep, your words, what are you saying, what's your first interaction like, how do you close that piece? I think that's honestly been the biggest impact within the coaching space of tangible I've seen results. A lot of it comes down to, yeah, communication. Finding their verbal communication. Now it's like, yeah.

Dean: And so the best way of really getting crystal clear on that is if I ask people, you know, what would you do if you could only get paid when someone gets a result? What's the result that you're so good at getting that you would bet on yourself to get?

Troy: Mm-hmm, I like that because I think, honestly, even just running, I've been chatting about this with Jimmy sometimes but running some sort of, just sending people split tests. Like here, you're running traffic? Try this out. If it works, let's talk. If it doesn't, let's not. Or we can figure out whatever but I think that's been something we've been brainstorming on. I guess my question would be, where do I find the people that are running the traffic? Because I want to know that they have traffic coming to their site already that they're potentially making some sales already and then just a couple tweaks, whether it be one or two words in the headline, you know? A tweak of the offer at the bottom. Boom.

Dean: Right.

Troy: Good and then from there we can look at what their next launch might be. Whatever but I think that that's the best approach for that.

Dean: Okay so then part of it then becomes who are the people who are running traffic.

Troy: Mm-hmm, I like that.

Dean: On behalf of other people? Because that means if somebody is using an agency, and this is where you may be a great elaborator or secret weapon for an agency that runs traffic but doesn't have the marketing support.

Troy: So I guess question for y'all on that because this is the thing that's kind of stumped me with that is some agencies are like, no, I don't want to see your split tests. We're going to run this stuff and figure it out ourselves.

Dean: Right.

Troy: Because they're kinda like, they feel like it's like stealing, if that makes sense. They feel like I'm coming for their people.

Dean: Ah, yeah, yeah. But that's a very scarcity mindset, right? You mentioned, you know, somebody that you've been working with, that they would realize that they get people traffic and then they wouldn't be able to convert, right? And that's who you can help, right? So a lot of these agencies, they're probably, and maybe not full agencies, but there's a lot of people running traffic. They're not doing the creative. They're doing the execution. So their frustration is that, well look, we're doing our job, we're getting you all this traffic, you're just not converting it.  So they probably lose clients that way because they can't afford to keep running traffic since they're not converting but if they had somebody like you who could come in, you know, create that difference, I mean, either on the client side or with the agency itself.

Troy: I'm curious more on the client side of it as well, just to create more a robust relationship long term. Because I can find the people for traffic for them but I'm thinking, how do I say this? Just like more in a plus percent realm where I can collect actual royalties on performance. I think it has to be more client-centric versus agency. That's really cool though. I really never thought of that. Man, that's great. I got a full page of notes here.

Dean: So you know, that's really a cool thing. Then where it really becomes amplified then, is if you can find somebody who's running traffic on a regional basis or a local basis.

Troy: Oh yeah. That's smart.

Dean: Then you can syndicate that solution, right?

Troy: I like that too because it's like I feel there's a lot more less scarcity in when you’re not in the internet marketing realm, more local. Local places would love to have great coffee.

Dean: Yes and it's often cost prohibitive for them. Right? Because they're pure numbers are not as big as the bigger companies.

Troy: Mm-hmm. That's really cool. I really like that. I like that a lot.

Dean: That's been one of my staples of my business, is figuring out the stuff for local businesses.

Troy: That's really fucking cool. I love this. Man, that's great.

Dean: And then syndicating it. Yeah, because once you solve the solution, that's leverage. That's something.

Troy: Yeah and you can take it to any other, you can duplicate it into the next industry and then not even touch their competition because it's a whole different local. Oh, that's cool.

Dean: It's the best way to leverage your skill.

Troy: I like that a lot because I think the biggest concern I've had is long term. How the heck do I leverage everything that I'm building because I can't coach for the next 20, 30 years full time every day, all day. I mean, I could but it's energy intensive.

Dean: Right.

Troy: Hmm. That's great. I love this.

Dean: That's why documenting your coaching system but even more importantly, documenting your protocols or the IP that goes along with that.

Troy: I like that. I like that. That's cool. That's great. How do you go about even pinpointing which are your best performing protocols? Just looking at what people got best results with, I guess?

Dean: Yeah, I start testing.  I always do everything within and of one study where we're working with one business to try and test something or solve a problem.

Troy: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: And then once it work, then you've got to see, does it work again?

Troy: Mm-hmm.  Does this duplicate, yeah, yeah. That's kind of cool.

Dean: And then if it does, you've got what I call your scale ready algorithm.

Troy: That's smart.

Dean: I have no interest, where my unique ability is in creating the scale ready algorithm. I don't have ability or interest in scaling that but other people can scale that. So I surround myself with people who can do that, scaling.

Troy: Oo I like that. That's cool. That's really smart. This is great. This is really wonderful. I got a lot of different things to wire down but this is really cool. It opens up a lot of clarity in realms that I've been kinda thinking of but it's a lot of confirmation on them.

Dean: Yeah, scaling is really just about disciplined execute. You know?

Troy: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: So it's more difficult for a creative person, you know? Because it's not your go zone, you know?

Troy: Yeah, absolutely.

Dean: But, unfortunately, that's where all the money is. All the money is in exploiting and is really taking advantage and maximizing, optimizing, the results that you get from everything that you've figured out, you know?

You look at that and that's why choosing the right vehicle, I've really started thinking about what I kind of do, what my favorite thing, like I love analogies and I think about, in this, I've really thought that a hit song is a scale ready algorithm that, when you think about it, I use Max Martin as an example. Do you know who Max Martin is?

Troy: I don't particularly.

Dean: Okay, well, so on the list of people who have written the most number one songs in history, that list goes Paul McCartney then John Lennon then Max Martin.

Troy: Oh that's cool. That's really cool.

Dean: Max Martin is this 50 year old Swedish guy who has written basically every song on the radio for the last 20 years.

Troy: Oh my gosh. That's phenomenal.

Dean: So when I tell you, all the way from Ace of Base in 1996 or 7 or whatever, all the way through Britney Spears, every hit song she's had. N'Sync, Backstreet Boy, Kelly Clarkson, Katy Perry, Pink.

Troy: That's amazing. I did not know that.

Dean: All these things, right? All these bands. They come to Sweden or he's got a place in Beverly Hills now too but he works mostly in Sweden. He'll work with them to create this song. He writes and produces songs with them, albums. So when creates, you know, Katy Perry had five number one's on one album that he created with her and when he's done creating those songs with her, she now was the scaler of this. She took those songs and she took them all over the world that that machine took over. So Max Martin didn't have anything to do with all that.

Troy: He just creates the piece that can.

Dean: He creates that and then while she's out touring, he's in the studio with Christina Aguilerra, making her next album.

Troy: I love that. So they're the scale machines and he's just creating the things that can scale.

Dean: He creates the scale, what I'm calling the scale ready algorithm. He creates the songs because he was in a band initially and realized that's not what he wants. He doesn't want to tour around and place the same songs every night for three years. That's not exciting to him. He liked writing songs and producing songs.

Troy: That's great.

Dean: Yeah, once he's got it in the can then...

Troy: That's exciting. I have a big smile on my face.

Dean: Right. So that's kind of like the perfect metaphor for what I'm going for, you know, it's what I really like. I want to work with artists. Artists, entrepreneurs that have the ability to scale the song that I helped them write.

Troy: Yeah. I love that. That's juicy man. I like that. Thank you for telling that. That makes that understanding a lot more grasp-able.

Dean: Right and that's the thing. I think, whenever I talk to a creative, you know, even just in having the conversations with you, it sounds like you really like the intellectual exercise of figuring things out.

Troy: Mm-hmm, yeah, it's enjoyable because it's like, where are the holes? Where's is the gaps? Where do we plug? What do we need to replace? And it's just like, yeah, that excites me.

Dean: Yeah.

Troy: Just aligning chess pieces almost.

Dean: Mm- hmm.

Troy: The board's already there but it's like, yeah, I like that a lot. That's wonderful. This is great.

Dean: So then you got to know, he just happened to choose that he writes pop songs. So you've got the opportunity to figure out what kind of songs do you want to write. You know?

Troy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really cool. I like that a lot. I'm going to drill a lot more down in to that.

Dean: Yeah. I write real estate songs and business songs. You know? Email songs. That’s the kind of things that, when I've got these chassis, you know, when I go through things with my email mastery program, I share all of these frameworks for all of the emails that I write and it's great to see people take that chassis and then put their own words on it and it works. You know?

Troy: Your naked truth sales letter, man-

Dean: Well, that's exactly it.

Troy: It just works.

Dean: Yeah, that's cool. That's been a long time since I did that.

Troy: Jimmy sent it over to me and it's a great framework that I honestly think almost every entrepreneur should have sitting as a conversion page.

Dean: Uh-huh.

Troy: It's not simple to write but once you do the research, it fleshes itself out.

Dean: Right and then you can dress it up with whatever angle or hook that you wanna attach to it but you've got the basics of it.

Troy: That's really cool. Man, I can't believe we're even connecting. I remember hearing about you on a training from Evan years ago. How he's consult you when he was doing launches and different things.

Dean: Right, right, yeah. Evan. We go way, way, way back.

Troy: You're driving down to Disneyland or something and he'd call you.

Dean: Yes.

Troy: Oh man. That's so cool. Yeah, that's wild.

Dean: That's funny. What's your takeaway here? How did all of this, kind of, land? We talked about a lot of different things.

Troy: Biggest thing is getting a lot clearer, it gave me confirmation on the copy, design and conversion path because there's a big gap there. Figuring out, I guess, what my scale ready algorithm is for people that can basically take them from point A to Z always and know whichever industry. I have to choose which space. I think that parts going to be a little difficult yet. I've got to narrow down which category I want to play in the most that I can get people the most results in with the least resistance and then take its potentially different categories.

Dean: Yeah.

Troy: I think the looking at agencies that are running traffic that are more local agencies like big media buyers versus a couple guys online running traffic that are seemingly good at running traffic. I think that's the really big takeaway for me because a lot of the big media buyers, to be honest, they're copying most of the stuff they have is not that good. They just buy loads. So I think that's a great entry point to start. Just even testing stuff. I think throughout that, I get a lot more clarity on the category as well. Yeah, I like that a lot. This just gave me a lot of confirmation on the direction too.

Dean: That's so awesome.

Troy: Yeah, no, it's really great. Thank you so much.

Dean: You're very welcome. Well I enjoyed that. Let's stay connected. Keep me posted on what's happening and I want to see how it all unfolds.

Troy: Mm- hmm, yeah, absolutely. No, I'm excited. I think is going to be great. Thank you so much.

Dean: Awesome. Well, say hi to Jimmy for me.

Troy: Absolutely, I will.

Dean: Okay, thanks.

Troy: Awesome, thanks so much Dean. If you ever need any connections, don't hesitate to ask.

Dean: Okay, awesome. Thanks.

Troy: Amazing. Absolutely. Cool. Take care man and thank you again. Really appreciate it.

Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode. I love it when they end like that, that everybody's excited, has a sense of new direction and confidence in the ability to really get to work and think things through. Because I think a lot of light bulbs came on for Troy there. I think the best place for you to really start here is to get clear on how your business is shaping up in terms of how the profit activators are affecting your business. We can do that easily at ProfitActivatorScore.com, where you can go through the online profit activator scorecard that Troy mentioned which is very insightful, just kind of going through and finding out where you are. You find yourself in this scorecard. It's not like there's a secret process where your answers are being sent through a matrix to create an output of a big report. All the insight is right there on the single page scorecard. You get the insight just by identifying where you are and where you want to be with each of the eight profit activators. So it kind of guides your thinking into where the biggest opportunity is so ProfitActivatorScore.com, that's where you can get started there.

If you want to continue the conversation here, you can go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com. You can download a copy of the More Cheese Less Whiskers book and if you'd like to be a guest, just click the Be A Guest link and that will take you right to the spot where you can tell me all about your business and then we can get together and hatch some evil schemes for you. So, that's it for this week. Have a great week and I will talk to you next time.