Today on the More Cheese Less Whiskers podcast we're talking with Linda McKissack.
I love episodes like this where I get to combine my two greatest loves; marketing and real estate, and Linda and I have very similar backgrounds in that she has been involved in real estate since her early twenties, just like me, and she has gone on to build one of the largest organizations within Keller Williams with thousands of agents, and lots of offices.
Today we're talking about how she can use her assets of her book and starting a podcast to help grow her organization and really just do what she loves to do; helping, and mentor people.
Linda is great to talk with and you're really going to enjoy this episode.
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Transcript - More Cheese Less Whiskers 131
Dean: Linda McKissack.
Linda: Good afternoon, Dean. How are you?
Dean: I'm so good. How are you?
Linda: I am great. Having sunny weather in Texas when it's supposed to be really cold. I love it.
Dean: How perfect. We're having a little bit cooler weather down here in Florida. But still, better than our other choices, right?
Linda: Yes. You could be, where, in Canada and sad?
Dean: That's exactly right. So I'm very excited that we're getting to chat here. We've met and had some conversations. But I think, you know, most of the time when I do these I haven't really met people. So I have a little bit of an advantage. And I think it would probably be a good idea to start and maybe share a little bit of your background and, you know, where you're coming from. And then we can focus on whatever you want to work on.
Linda: Sure. Absolutely. I am convinced, Dean, that had you and I met many years ago we would have been massive friends forever. Which we're fast friends already, but I just appreciate everything you do and I resonate with everything you do. So mainly because I come from the real estate world.
Dean: Yes, right.
Linda: Got in the business in the late '80s. And kind of got in kind of a weird way. I didn't know a single person in real estate. Didn't even know what people did when they sold real estate. But I was 23 years old and my husband was in the restaurant and nightclub business. Which kind of came across and hit Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas really bad in the late '80s. Kind of devastated our businesses and we found ourselves $600,000 upside down in debt real quick.
Linda: The good news about being 23 is I didn't know what the word "economy" meant, and I certainly didn't know how much $600,000 were. So that kind of protected me a little bit. But I am a hard worker. I come from a family of hard workers. And my family if one job isn't enough, you get two. And if two isn't enough, you get three. So when my husband was really kind of distraught over it and came to me and said, "I really need your help", for whatever reason, I happened to be wise enough at that time to ask him, "You know, I'm a hard worker, but I've never done anything up until this point that's made me a whole lot more than minimum wage except waitress and bartend at your clubs. So what do you think I should do? If you were me, what would you do?"
And I don't know why, because usually I don't really ask his opinion on everything, you know? But at least he said that. But for whatever reason, I said, "What you do think I should do?" And he said, "You know, I had a mentor one time", that was his pee wee football coach that stayed his coach all through high school and would pick him up because his parents couldn't take him. And he said, "You know, he told me a long time ago if you want to make a lot of money, that real estate is the way to do it. And we laugh today because I've since learned that that man was actually a big developer out of Dallas, Texas. And I doubt he said, "Oh yeah, put your wife to work in real estate. You'll get rich.
Yeah. But that's how I got into real estate. So I got in, and to be honest with you, I didn't do very well at all. Made $6,000 gross. Jimmy said that was extremely gross, because he had to pay 15 for me to make three, and he said, "That math is not quite what I intended." But there was something that resonated about real estate. I'm a big freedom person, which I think from what I listen to everything about you, Dean, you are also.
Linda: And there was something about me being in charge of how much money I could ultimately make that really, really interested me. And so I felt like, "Man, if I can ever figure this thing out, I think I can do good at it. And so, you know, I just asked everybody that I could get in front of, you know, "How do I do this? How do I get a listing? How do I get a buyer?" And eventually I found my way at a seminar out in California. And I knew right then that learning would be my secret weapon, because if you can get around the learning, you can figure out, you know, what you need to do. And if you do what you need to do, then you'll get the results.
The rest was history. I was one of the first people in the country to turn my business over to someone else. And I did that about 19 years ago. Stayed in the real estate world. I now own real estate franchises and own a region for my company. But I turned my business over. And I always like to say the two scariest thoughts in my life are when I hired my first assistant, because I didn't know how I was going to pay him. And when I hired the person to replace me in my business was super scary because no one had ever done that. And I was really doing it on blind faith and on the fact that Gary Keller was coaching me at the time and he could see that I hit a ceiling in the business and was frustrated and wanted to try to see if I could do something else. But couldn't really walk away from that much income. And so I just get somebody to come in like any businessperson would and have them replace. But as realtors, we're not always not used to thinking like business people, right?
Linda: So that was a pretty scary concept. But it would be one that would actually change my life and my destiny forever. And then having gone through that $600,000 worth of debt, the pain of that made me get on a journey to search, who are the people that never get in these kinds of situations where their income disappears overnight?
Dean: Right. Yes.
Linda: You know, if their market is disrupted or the economy changes, they have enough streams of income that this doesn't affect them. And so that then became my new journey of figuring out how to get enough freedom. You know, enough passive income that I could have freedom from anything that would happen. So, yeah, that's kind of how I got to here today. Exactly that path.
Dean: Wow. And now, so what are you working on exciting now? I know you got some cool things that you wanted to work through here. And maybe we can hatch some evil schemes?
Linda: Sure. I love it. I love the way you think and I listen to some of your podcasts helping people do that. So you're the first person I thought of. But, you know, really my ultimate, and it's kind of odd because, you know I've been a part of Genius Network and I do Dan Sullivan's Strategic Coach and love both of them. But I did it in search of kind of at the time thinking, "Oh, you know, the internet's here. I need to do something on the internet and do all those things." But what I found is I didn't really want to be someone who attracts everyone.
I'll give you an example. If you go to a best-selling book called Hold: Find, Buy, and Rent Houses to Build Wealth, because that's one of the journeys that we went on when I turned my real estate practice over is that looked like one of the most easiest, simple next door step to walk through would be to do that. So we did it. And we wrote a best-selling book about it. And I was on a podcast called Bigger Pockets. And every time he re-runs it it just blows my website up.
But the reality is what I realized, Dean, is the people I loved to work with, my purpose I truly believe what gives me joy and I could do all day long and not worry about what time it is or if I'm getting paid or what I'm, you know, going to eat that day, then is for me to help successful but overworked real estate entrepreneurs understand the power of leverage and passive income so that they can get the freedom and margins that I know enjoy and use it for whatever they want to use it for. If I could do something every day all day long, that would be what I would do.
I just got back from Seattle and Portland teaching, you know, a business planning class. And I enjoy realtors. I've been in their journey. I can help them. I can see their holes sometimes better than they can. Kind of like you do.
Dean: Right. I get it. That's the thing. You know, it's one of those things. You know, I always say I have real two loves in business. That's marketing and real estate. You know, applying the marketing to real estate is really the sweet spot of all of it. And so interesting that, you know, we are very similar in that way in that that we both have this passion for it.
What's your intention with it? Like, what is it wanted to look like, what you're trying to accomplish there?
Linda: Well, probably the hardest part about what I'm trying to accomplish is I'm not trying to accomplish something where I get the people I help to pay me money. And honestly, you know, I might have mentioned this to you briefly before, the struggle I struggle with is, you know, if I go to learn how to be an entrepreneur on the internet and do all those things, I've learned that when you write a book, because we've written two books, one about our real estate journey and one about the real estate investing. I realize that you need to know what that book is going to get you. Where do you want to get? And then, you need to wake up and say, "Okay, that's where I want to be." Right?
Linda: And so my struggle has really been most things in real estate when people are trying to get in relationship with other top realtors, you know, they're usually either want to sell them a coaching program or their seminar or any of those things. And that's not it at all for me. I have really discovered that the greatest success that we're going to have in life is the talented people we attract to us. In other words, the more I can attract great people, then the bigger my life gets. And sometimes that means I have an opportunity or a spot for them. Sometimes that means they just join our organization.
And sometimes I just meet them and we either do an opportunity together or we don't and I just have a new person that is, you know, someone that is a new resource or something that you do stuff together or you learn from. So that's probably been my biggest struggle is I'm not trying to build anything from the edge of... I want to get all these coaching clients or I want to get all these people to sell them the seminar or any of those things. And so that's kind of probably really the honest place where I get stuck on this. Is I want to build a tribe of those people. The end game is not necessarily them.
Dean: So the end game ultimately, hopefully that they would then join your organization? Join one of your offices or in your region.
Linda: Yeah. Exactly. The select few, not everyone would. Because, you know, there's only a select few that would match the opportunity or it would be a fit for them. And I've learned a long time ago, you can't make a person buy or a person sell or a person join that doesn't want to, you know?
Linda: What I can do is help them self-discover. And if we're a match it works out. And if we're not, it doesn't, right?
Dean: Right. They're exactly right. That's what I say, it's easier to compel somebody that knows that this is the right thing. I'm never in the business of trying to convince anybody of anything, right? You just share. Shine the light, and they see it and move towards it or they don't. And that's a really healthy, good way to approach it. So that's cool.
So let's talk about the geography of it. Because we were narrowing down to a target audience here. That'll be the first thing on the agenda. So what would be the geography of the realtors that you want to try and attract?
Linda: Well, my first thought is that I learned this from one of my coaches one times is you master a small kind of the inkblot theory, kind of like what Walmart did. You know, you start in a small geographic area and you move out. So I run a region for my company that is Southern Ohio. So it's basically big cities, so Columbus, Cincinnati, and Dayton. All of Kentucky. And just a portion of Indiana, which would include Indianapolis and Bloomington. And then southern Indiana.
Dean: Yeah, the three corners there and where Kentucky and yeah.
Linda: Yeah. And not that it would matter long term that I attracted all over the United States. Because there's actually an opportunity I could do that also.
Dean: Yeah, I got it.
Linda: But this is more important. If I had to say, what is my most dollar-productive thing tomorrow? It's that.
Dean: That's it. Right. Perfect.
Linda: Become the person that's most valid to the realtors in that location.
Dean: Right. Now, how many are there? Do we know? These are knowable numbers, right? This is the kind of thing where we'd look at it and have the thing. But let's say if you don't know the number, there is a knowable number and I'm just going to, you know, what would you guess that to be if we were on Price Is Right and you're trying to bid without going over?
Linda: I'm going to guesstimate probably 35,000 people. 35,000 realtors. I'm just guessing.
Dean: Yeah. That's great. And that's a good round…
Linda: And that's a good point I made a note to know that.
Dean: Well, it's a good number to wrap your mind around here, too, right? And so of that 35,000 that are there, how many of them are currently in your organization? How many are in your, you know, in your world?
Linda: In my world? That number I do know. 4100.
Dean: Okay. So you've got over 10% of the market. Does that sound about right?
Dean: Okay. So that's a good thing. So you've got already a really great established reputation. I'm sure you have some of the top performers in the whole region as well working with you. And so everybody's kind of all eyes on that in any event. So the delta now is these 3500 turning into the, you know, the balance here. Or the 4100, sorry. The difference between that and the 35,000, that's who we're trying to attract now.
Now, if you were to say who would be the ideal for you, it's not everybody, right? I have a good friend who owns a Keller Williams in Canada.
Linda: Oh, is it Glenn?
Dean: Yeah. Glenn McQueenie. I'm sure you know him.
Linda: I love Glenn.
Dean: Yeah. So Glenn, you know, he's got great stats and everything for the Toronto real estate board just happens to be 35,000 people, same number that you're looking at there. But there was some crazy number, like more than 50% of the people to one or two transactions over the course of the year. And that, you know, I think that those kinds of numbers would be good for you to kind of look and see, you know, who are the best audience for you. Who is it that would be your gold standard? What you're really looking for?
Dean: How would you describe it?
Linda: Okay, that's a great point. So here's the truth. Actually, all of them would be fine. I mean, I understand there's some that don't produce anything, and that's just part of the industry, right? All of them would be fine. What my thought is once you have that, that audience or whatever, then from that I would need something like the scorecard or something to get the, you know, the 5% or whatever it is, you know? It's always a real 80-20, but it's really 95-5, or whatever it is in real estate, right?
Linda: And in those areas. So then I would ultimately want, you know, something to flush out that let's say 5 to 10% that would be the cream of the crop that I would spend more time with. I would do a little more sifting through to maybe find some bigger opportunities with. Does that make sense?
Dean: Mm-hmm. It does. Absolutely. And so what would be some of the things that you would help them with?
Linda: Well, I truly think my passion and my unique ability is I can talk now, I don't enjoy lower producers in the fact because I kind of get exhausted thinking about what all they don't know that I need to teach them. What I enjoy is that top producer that is really starting to struggle. They're starting to kind of hit ceilings in their business. They're challenged. They're kind of asking themselves, "What else might there be? What's other opportunities?" Kind of like I got at 12 years in the business, 200 transactions a year. I kind of hit a ceiling and thought, "I don't know if I want to do this for the next 30 years. What else could I possibly do? And I can't leave all this money, right?"
Linda: Or they're struggling with the leverage of people. You know, they've used all their time that they have. Because, you know, we all only got 24 hours, right?
Linda: So I do more with that. So I really love it when they started to ask themselves those questions. They're starting to really realize that they can't just do it by themselves, but people are hard, right?
Linda: Struggle. I have a passion in helping them figure that piece out because I had to figure that piece out myself. It's a wealth-building piece. If they're starting to ask Oh my gosh, if they've realized what I call the realtor dilemma, is the last day you sell your last house is your last dollar. You know, I remember my moment when I woke up and realized that. Or if they've woken up and realized, you know, 50 more deals, a hundred more deals is not going to solve all their problems. They need multiple streams of income. So anybody kind of in those categories are the cream of the crop. Kind of my perfect, love to spend time, love to help. And I can help them with all those issues. That makes sense?
Dean: It does. You know, it's funny just keeping, you know, an eye on that. Because I would divide the realtors into four different avatars where we would have Betty, who would be the brand new agent who's like bright eyed and enthusiastic and wants to make it a success. But doesn't have a clue what to do. It would be Linda McKissack circa the day she got her real estate license, right?
Dean: Dollar year Linda, you know? And of everything, that I understand what you're saying, that you don't want to just focus on the top producers. Because in every class you know, every new class of realtors that are coming in each year, there's a Linda McKissack in there just needing direction and needing some help, right? It's like you get that. That you're looking for those people. So that would be the first group is Betty.
Then I would call the next group Veronica. And they are the ones who are two or three years into real estate. They've made it. They got their feet under them. They know what to do. They're getting some business. And they're competent realtors. You know, they're going to make it a go. But if they had a system to get more business, they would be able to thrive, right?
Dean: They just need to get more opportunities.
And then there's Ginger. And Ginger is the stereotypical glamorous realtor who's the busy realtor who's been in for a lot of years. Who drives the nice car and has an assistant or many assistants. But it's all about Ginger. She's doing all of the business. And she's got these helpers who are helping her. It's not the same as the next one, which is Martha. Who's building an organization of people who have a team and roles. Where it's not just ultimately they're building something that will run without Martha at some point, right? Ginger's focused on building the Ginger team. All just supporting her, right?
But that is the one that leads to the hamster wheel. And that's the one where probably sounds like what you're saying. Is those are the people who they're doing a lot of business, but it's at the cost of they're having the same year every year in terms of they're just constantly busy. They're doing enough business, but it's not getting any easier. And they don't feel like there's any leverage in it, right?
And so that's an interesting, you know, that's an interesting spot. For me, for all the things that we've done, I've had my best successes with Veronica. Taking Veronica and giving her the systems and the stuff to turn into Martha. To build and bypass that whole going down the Ginger path of just making themselves busier with help, you know?
Dean: And so that's been an interesting focus there. So if you could say, you know, with those people, what is it that you would do? How would you help them and what would you know, what kind of protocol would you teach them? Or how would it work?
Linda: Yeah. Okay, so yeah. Ginger and Martha would definitely be my category. Martha being my first choice, and Ginger would be a little frustrating, but I probably would eventually break through to her that if you just play your life out 20 years from now, how much longer do you think you can do this, right?
Dean: Right. Right.
Linda: Like this. But both of those two would be in my category. So the first thing would be a conversation, you know. Because I think every relationship starts with validity. So my expertise, what I've done along the way, what I've lived through, all that stuff. When I can communicate with some of these people, very quickly they can see the validity. And so just depending on the person, you know, usually what I'm going to do is I'm going to see, are they somebody who is extremely talented that's kind of looking for, what do they live their life for next in an opportunity? And I may look inside my organization and see where that opportunity is.
So maybe we have six franchises. So it might be leading one of my franchises. It might be another role inside that franchise. It might be an operating principal, which is somebody who oversees that whole business and organization. So, you know, I also know who the kind of perfect avatar for each of these roles are. For example, I'm behaviorally matched, I can go in and be an operating principal, but I could never be a team leader in our system because you have to wake up every day and be kind of not really a cheerleader, because they do more than that. But you know how a cheerleader loves people and people give them energy? That is what they have and I don't have that. I'm lower sociability. So that would drain me on a daily basis, right?
Linda: So depending on who the person is and what they've lived their life like and what they've really earned the right. Because, you know, opportunities are earned and they're proven by what you've done before that opportunity. I would look at them and try to figure out, where's that next opportunity? Or the next natural door? Or where there hole is. So it might be as simple as, you know, I kind of just help them understand some of their holes a little bit better. And then help see that if they've dropped into our model and system, maybe it's training they need. And we offer that training to build that better team that can replace you, not just support you.
Maybe it's, you know, helping them understand that building another stream of income is super important. So how do they do that? What are their options to do that? And then everybody would have a place. You know, some people might just be they joined one of our market centers and they plug into all the training that we have, right?
Linda: That, you know that they need on a regular basis to help them do their business. Or the environment of just other people being in an office that help each other win. You know, so much of people's success usually people will go figure out the answers, but it really helps if you're in an environment that doesn't feel like you have to lose for them to win. I remember early on in my career, a couple of the offices I was at, nobody helped anybody because they thought, "Well, if I help you, I'm going to do that first. And I hated that, you know? So our environment is one that we help each other. And so that takes people so far. Still think you need systems and training and all those kind of things. But, you know, maybe that's what they're looking for. Maybe that's what they're interested in.
You know when I joined and when I came over to this model and system, I was just sick of someone getting in my way of building a brand. I really felt like if they just got out of my way and let me build my brand as big as I could. But they felt like they were the brand. So sometimes, you know, it's different. I was paying them an extra $80,000 I shouldn't pay them a year. But that wasn't my biggest hole at the time. I wasn't paying attention to that. I was paying attention to, "I know how to build a big brand where in Denton, Texas, when people think of real estate they think of me." But I kept running up against obstacles.
So, you now, everybody's going to be different, but it would be somewhere in an organization and the cream of the crop would be people that I would take and really take them on a journey very similar to the one that I've taken so that they can wind up with a super big life and multiple streams of income.
Dean: Yeah. Well, how many of the 35,000 people know who you are?
Linda: Probably not a lot of them. That is my number one goal is to try to become valid through them. So I'm going to tell you what I hope we got 4100 and maybe a few more.
Dean: Oh, there's Old Lady McKissack. There she is. That's right.
Linda: Yeah, exactly. Well, it's funny because there are others, because they're actually people that have picked up our hold book. I had one of our team leaders line me up with a top agent a few months ago. And the team leaders said, "You know, I was so shocked when he said yes so quick for the appointment". You know? And come to find out, the reason he said yes is he said, "I listen to your Bigger Pockets Podcast and I read your book Hold. And I was dying to meet with you." So maybe a few that have found our Presentation Mastery For Realtors book or our Hold book. Maybe a few of those that have accidentally done that on their own.
But I'm going to tell ya, I wouldn't venture a whole lot more than the 4100 we have. But maybe a few.
Dean: Okay. And is this something that you can get the 4100 aligned with helping introduce you to these people, too? Or is this something that you're thinking outside of that and you're going to bring them the other way?
Linda: Yeah. I think if that would have happened, it would have already. They have avenues to do that. Like, if I go into the area and I teach and they will, what I like to do is kind of go around it and make it easier even for them to do that. Does that make sense?
Dean: Yeah, I got it.
Linda: You know, I'm a modeler. I believe in modeling. I'm not a super creative person, so I'm not going to be the one to go invent all the stuff that you've created, Dean. But I can model and copy anything. And I look at someone like Gary Keller and, you know, when he originally just set out to say what is the one thing he could do. Hence his book, The One Thing, right?
Linda: The one thing he could do to really help the organization grow, they wrote a hundred things on a flip chart board, and of the hundred things, they settled on him writing a book. And that's where he wrote The Millionaire Real Estate Agent book. And it gave him validity and made his name known. And it helped all of us. I used his book to go open the door to people for me. So I know that this will make them be able to do it easier. But I would like to go around and make it easier for them to do.
Dean: Yes. I get it. So part of that, then, now we've got these 35,000. And those are easy to identify. We can target those. We can get a list of them. We can, you know, get through direct mail or through Facebook even to get to all of them. Now it just becomes a matter of, what's the path that we want them to go on? How do you see this looking? Like, what do you envision that you want to work and talk to people one on one? Or do you want to do big trainings with hundreds of people? Or do you want to do, you know, intimate group of 12 people in a board room setting? What would be the thing that you would really enjoy?
Linda: Okay. And I've learned a lot about that over the years, you know, by trying certain things. I just didn't enjoy. So I would say probably my goal is to do love training. And those can be set up. And my goal is to continue to do those, but have those become easier to get people to bring people to as I've done the backwork of getting my name known. I have about 2,000 books of the presentation Mastery For Realtors. And to be honest with you, we need to rewrite the technology part of it. So we're probably going to do that. But I need to get the 2,000 out. And so my goal is, and I put a sticker, because I listen to all you guys.
Dean: Ah, yes.
Linda: A sticker on the front that will send them to take a…
Dean: Pre-recorded message.
Linda: Yeah. Well, it's not a recorded message.
Dean: Oh, okay.
Linda: I didn't think about that. Send them to do a scorecard.
Dean: Okay, good.
Linda: Yeah. So I did that. And we haven't gotten them out yet because I'm kind of waiting to do this whole plan out before. You know, I'm ready, fire, aim.
Dean: Yeah, right.
Linda: Already firing. But I thought, "You know, I better get some more guidance on this first." So I plan on using the Presentation Mastery For Realtors book. I've been talking to your team about doing a podcast so that I have another girl that I want to do it with, because I've learned also I don't want to do it just by myself. But I do really well interview style.
Dean: That's awesome.
Linda: Stuff like that. So I've learned that piece of it. So she's in Lexington, Kentucky. And we're going to talk about lots of things. Not just how to sell another house, you know, the things we love right now. And we're going to take questions from realtors because I love answering questions. And she's single, never been married. I've already grown. Raised kids selling real estate. And have one of them working in the business with me. So I think we can cover, you know, lots of different gamuts there.
And then, yes, I would continue to do some training in the area. And so that's kind of our goal right now is podcast, trainings, and using the books that I've already written. And I do a lot of, you know, like training and things like that and interviews and stuff. So I'm going to get better about getting someone to capture that. I have not been good at that. And then we could just repurpose some of that information. But I haven't been very good at that so far.
Dean: Yeah. And so, you know, part of the thing is that what we need to do initially is if we look at it as concentric circles, right? You've got 35,000 will represent the broadest or the outermost ring of this. And then in that bullseye, we've got 4100 who are in your organization already, right?
Dean: And everybody else is in between there. Now, what we're trying to do is move people closer to that bullseye. Because right now, 35,000 of them don't know you, we're just going to assume. Or the 29,000 or whatever it is between the differences between the 30,000. And so the 30,000, our goal the first thing is that we turn those sort of invisible prospects or, you know, unknown prospects into known prospects. So part of it, that's why a book is an easy thing to start with. By offering somebody a free book as a way to find somebody who is sort of leaning forward on the idea of, "Oh, I'd really like to learn Presentation Master Skills."
So that would be a great way to start the process. And you could do that through Facebook Ads that you can target to people who have real estate agent as their occupation in their targeting. And in those states. And that will get you, you know, in touch with people who are real estate agents and are interested in the first level of what you're talking about, you know, in doing better presentations. Because that's really what can make or break your real estate career, right? Is if you get in front of people, how are you doing?
Linda: Well, and yeah. And it's also, how do you present yourself to the public so that your name is known when people look to choose real estate?
Dean: Yes. Perfect. So that would be a really easy first step for you is getting you know, just running some Facebook Ads specifically targeted to those people. And the ads can be very simple. I mean, I run those for my Listing Agent Lifestyle book. And I just run, you know, it's a picture of the book on a desk with a cup of coffee and a computer. But it's just basically the cover of the book. And those words resonate with the person that I really want to be in conversation with, right? So I want to be around the person who wants to build a listing-centric business, right?
Dean: And so that attracts the right people. And so your message of presentation mastery is really going to resonate with the right people for you.
So now, if we can say that we can run those and you can get people to download the book and leave their name and their email address, I always look at this. That would be profit activator two, right? So we're working our way through. Profit activator one, we selected the 30,000 realtors that are not already in your organization that live in those states that you have a presence. Profit activator two, we're going to run Facebook Ads offering them a free book that they can download. Then that now puts them right into profit activator three, where we're going to educate and motivate them.
And that now is the place where you're going to start building this relationship with them, right? Because now everybody talks about this idea of know you, like you, trust you. But they read it as one thing, right? Know you, like you, trust you. You kind of say it fast. But the reality is that it's a journey. And going from someone that doesn't know you to someone who knows you is a big jump. And so we can celebrate that and it's okay that we stop right there for now.
And then we continue to educate, communicate with them so that they like you. And by like I mean that you resonate with them, right? Like, not in the, you know, eighth grade "Oh, I like you" kind of way, but popularity, but in the "I like what she's saying. She's like me. She's interested in the same things I'm interested. She seems to know what she's talking about." Then, they're in that position to trust you, right? Because you've demonstrated as they investigate this. That you're the real deal. And you're not just some buddy trying to take their money. Because that's not what you're trying to do at all. You're trying to help them, right?
So if we could get to that point where you've got now people who know who you are. You know that they're interested in improving their presentation skills because they've downloaded a book about it. Now, what would you say to that person? This is where now we need to figure out like, where are you going with this? Right? What's the path? If ultimately the path is just like you describe, you either find a position for them in your organization that's outside of being a real estate agent, or that they choose to come and join one of your offices and get your support to help build their team, what is that path from? You know, they've downloaded the book.
I always like to say to people, Linda, that imagine that the opt-in for your book is like a portal to your office. And as soon as they press the submit button to get the book, that they're immediately transported to your office. And there's a little knock on the door and they poke their head in and say, "Hey, Linda, I'm here about the book", what would you say to that person if they're showing up right there in your office? Right? What would you say and how would you handle that interaction with them? And where do you want it to go? How are you going to help them?
Linda: So a couple of things. I gotta get this question answered before I move on. You said download the book, it's actually a physical book. Does that matter?
Dean: Oh, that's fine.
Linda: Difference whether…
Dean: You can do both. You know, you could have it that it's a physical book where they leave their full mailing address or anything. But you're not looking to do like a free and then they pay shipping or something like that? You're just going to give them the book, right?
Linda: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and my thought on this, to answer your question, was that I would need to build a little more validity than just a book, right?
Linda: So my thought was, "Is this then the vehicle that we get them to come to the podcast?"
Dean: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Now you're using it as the vehicle to start the relationship, right? So I break it down that profit activator two is about compelling, where you've got somebody, they're going to seek that out because it's a book. It's valuable. It's about a topic that they're really interested in. So, "Yes, yes, I'll accept your gift of this free book." Now, once they do that, now it's about educating them and giving them, you know, we can now introduce them into Linda World, right? Everything that you've got set up. You know, the way I do it with Listing Agent Lifestyle is I've got a podcast that I do every week that's the same. You know, that educates them. It's the place for people who want to talk about building a Listing Agent Lifestyle.
And all of that is to lead people to GoGoAgent.com, where I'm building the community of people who are building this Listing Agent Lifestyle and I'm giving them the tools and the programs. How to get listings. How to find buyers. How to multiply their listings. How to get referrals. How to convert leads. All of those things are there for them. So that's the end game for me is that they come in and join my organization, you know?
Dean: So the same thing for you would be that they join your organization in some way. But you've got you know, we've got this bridge to build between, "Now they know you", because they've asked for the book, and, "They're working with you." That's the bridge. We've got to build the bridge from there to there.
Dean: Not everybody's going to make it across.
Linda: Right. So does that mean the dripping... What now?
Linda: The 33 Touch? Or, I'm sure.
Dean: It's similar.
Linda: You know, I'm sure they don't go straight to your door.
Linda: They're really in pain.
Dean: Right, right.
Linda: Otherwise, you gotta do something to keep dripping on them. Is that what you're saying?
Dean: That's exactly right. And that's what a podcast is about, right? So when you look at it that one of the things that you want to sort of think about is, how do you build that bridge from somebody raising their hand and saying, "I'm interested in presentation mastery?" How do you build that bridge from there to, you know, to them coming onboard with you?
Linda: Yeah. I would. If you're asking me.
Linda: What I'm assuming I would do is I would keep giving them value, because I'm a giver. Everything I've ever built, I've always say I went and found the relationships. I used my validity to build the relationship. I found out what their value gaps were. I started to put things in those value gaps. And I gave the profits the time that it needed for them to self-discover that what they needed was with me.
Linda: I'm assuming I would use the very same formula.
Dean: Absolutely. So the great thing is about a podcast. You know, when in my world, I do the podcast every week. And the podcast is transcribed. And then from that transcript, three times a week I send out an educational email, right? That's got a three- to 500-word educational piece. And that is the flagship communication, you know? That goes out every week and then at the bottom of every one of those emails, I have a super signature is what I call it. Where it ends with, "Whenever you're ready, here are four ways I can help you grow your business."
Linda: Love it. Okay.
Dean: Yeah. And so we need to think for you, what are those ways? What are the bridges? So what's your scorecard called?
Linda: I think we called it The Opportunity Scorecard. I'm trying to find people who are looking for a next opportunity. You know, what if you lived your life in such a way that there's a next natural door trying to open that you haven't maybe been able to see it yet? Or don't know what it is?
Dean: Okay. That could be one of the things. "Try our Opportunity Scorecard." Right? Explain in a little way. Like, if you're, you know, what would be the right way of articulating that? Describing it to somebody so they could see what is available to them, you know?
Linda: Yeah, I mean.
Dean: That could be one.
Linda: Yeah, that would be one. Like, maybe kind of like repeating some of the things they probably ask themselves in the marketing.
Linda: Or something? Is that what you mean?
Dean: Yes. Whatever it is that there's this scorecard that they can try. There's your podcast. So my thing always starts with, "Be a guest on The More Cheese, Less Whiskers Podcast." Or, "Be a guest on Listing Agent Lifestyle." So I want people to feel like they can, you know, move and get some individual attention, right? So that's-
Linda: Love that. Would love that. Yep.
Dean: Right? So that's one thing. Because you said you've got questions, I've got answers, right? That's your favorite modality. Right? As a quick start. Same thing with me. It's like you've got all this body of knowledge. You know you can, and you've got a quick mind that you can immediately kind of assess what your advice would be. You can think on your feet. And you can give somebody really good advice on the spot, right? You're not going to get stumped after 30-plus years.
Linda: Right. No, not when I stay in this lane of this world-
Dean: Right, exactly. So that's the same thing. So, you know, be a guest on the podcast. What's going to be the name of your podcast?
Linda: Well, I just sent some of this stuff home with a girl who's really good at like project management stuff. But the name we've kind of played with a little bit is Everything, and then Real, R-E-A-L, Real Big In Real Estate. So because we don't want to just answer, you know, "How do I get another listing? How do I get another buyer?" I mean, literally we want to kind of do the life of a realtor. You know, like, we're going to put all my favorite things right now. You know like I said, if you've got a question of, "I'm trying to raise my kids and sell real estate?" I mean, we want it everything. No, I think it's going to be called Keeping It Real Estate.
Dean: Ah, okay. Keeping It Real Estate. That's a great one. Yeah.
Linda: Yeah. So that's kind of what we've played with so far. And the real is just real big and broad.
Dean: Yep. I love it.
Linda: Because we're both very authentic and honest people. You know, I'm pretty transparent. I'll tell you all my failures. More so probably than I will always brag about my successes. And so we're going to just be real about everything. You know, what's hard and what's not so hard. And, you know, all those things. And so that's kind of what we're playing with is Keeping It Real, and then Estate. Pretty literally.
Dean: So that's perfect. So that's going to be your flagship, you know? And now, the great thing about doing the podcast is the longer that you do it, you're building up this now asset of all these archives. This episode, all these episodes. This body of work that you have that you can transcribe. That if people are asking questions, that in the future if other people have those questions, you can point them to this episode. "Oh, I talked all about that on Episode 13." You know? Go right there. So people can find themselves.
And the more that you're doing this over time, once you get, you know, 10, 12, 15 episodes in, it only takes a quarter to 90 days to get to that level. Then the new people who are coming in feel like they're joining in on a party that's already happening. And you've discovered this. And now it feels like, "Oh, this is great." So they rapidly get to know you. Because they can binge to catch up.
Linda: Yeah, I do it all the time.
Dean: And so you always feel great when you discover something new, right?
Dean: And it resonates. And you're like, "Oh, I'm just a sponge for this." And the more they listen, the more they like you. And the more that they realize that you really have the answers. And then you can direct that attention and trust in a direction that is going to move them towards taking next steps, whatever that may be for you, right? So if it's, "Be a guest on the show, see where you're at with our Opportunity Scorecard, or if you were to do local training, join us for a presentation workshop." Where maybe once a month you do something. Because everybody's very local. So maybe it's once a month you do something where they can join you for a live training.
Linda: Yeah. And all these kind of feed each other, because then the live training feeds the fact that they want to listen to more of the podcast. The podcast convinces them that they want to go to the live training.
Dean: That's it.
Linda: Yeah. All of this gets better and easier the more you do it.
Dean: Yep. And then you've gotta let people know that what the opportunities are with, you know, to continue working with you, you know? So if it's like, "Join our team", or if its positions that are available, opportunities within your organization, or whatever it is, just to kind of presence those things, you know?
Linda: Yeah. So I could have at the bottom like in my signature I could say, you know, where they go to if they want to ask a question. If they want a 15-minute, 30-minute consultation. Whatever. And, you know, " If you're interested in learning when we're going to be training in your area", we could have a place where they sign up for that.
Dean: Well, already, I would assume that once they sign up for something.
Linda: Oh, you're already letting them know that.
Dean: You're going to let them know. Yeah. They've already signed up for that. So I would in that super signature, it's like, "Join us for a live training." And have the next four trainings that you're doing there, you know?
Linda: Yeah. And then even having, you know, "If you're interested in an opportunity", you know? In one of these opportunities even. It sounds like you put everything that you offer out there.
Linda: Who decides they want what.
Dean: I do. And, you know, one of the things that's great is you can send these, I call them nine-word emails. Or you can send these short personal emails that when you're saying like you know, "In Cincinnati", for instance, you might be able to send to everybody around Cincinnati and say, "Hey, Linda. I'm doing a live training in Cincinnati. You know, next month or next week or whatever, and we're going to talk about this, this and this. Would you like to join us?"
Linda: Think through InfusionSoft I can separate them like that if I need to.
Dean: Yes, yes. Of course.
Linda: Awesome. That's fantastic. So just deciding what's in the middle of the drip campaign?
Linda: Can be these materials I'm already actually doing somewhere else. I can just repurpose, yeah, repurpose it.
Dean: Yep. Well, now you've done it all this time, but now you've got this whole body of work, this vehicle that you have of the Keeping It Real Estate. That's a great name for a podcast. And that's a really great opportunity for you to, you know, really just get all of your stuff out on the record, you know? In the new way, the new era of the record. In that it's on the podcast. And then when it's transcribed, that can turn into other pieces of content.
Linda: Yeah. Because I know like when I talked to your girl about the podcast. So two questions. One, is will you just have a small amount of people on the podcast in the beginning? And that will grow? Or do you try to push the podcast in other ways? That's one of my questions.
Dean: I don't ever try. And like for me personally, I use my podcast as a lead conversion tool, not the lead generation.
Linda: So it just grows organically? Is that what you're saying?
Dean: It grows, not organically. It will grow. It will grow organically slowly and unpredictably. Where I'm driving it is that I'm spending thousands of dollars on Facebook Ads to offer people free books that they opt in. And then I announce each episode to them. So that's-
Dean: What grows it is the people.
Linda: Okay. That makes sense.
Dean: The people, right. That I've got the audience. I'd rather have an email subscriber than a podcast subscriber.
Linda: Right. You can do lots of things.
Dean: If people subscribe, that's exactly it. And we have a lot. Because obviously you have a chance for people to subscribe to your podcast and find your podcast and discover it without opting in for something. And even if they subscribe on iTunes, you don't know who they are.
Linda: Yeah, you're right.
Dean: That you have is through the podcast.
Linda: I see.
Dean: The podcast. So you have to continually have to have an audio super signature, too, where at the end of the podcast, you're instructing people on what to do. To come from the podcast the other way, if that's how they discovered you.
Linda: And one of the things your girl said about the podcast was that y'all would do, I forgot how many emails to drip on them. So my question is, if I'm going to have to go out and either do Facebook Ads to get these people, I've got some in my database from BrokerMetrics. Because my thought when she said that was, "Well, what if we don't have very many people in there yet?"
Dean: Doesn't matter. And I wish that it would be blind for you. It doesn't matter. You've gotta do it. It's not an instant solution. I'd say you do this head down for a year. And just watch what happens, you know? Just stick to it.
Linda: Well, then who would your group send our emails to? Because she said I think there are some emails that you guys send out or whatever.
Linda: I assume it's to figure out what they say or you guys will help me with that.
Dean: Right. So at the same time, yeah, you're sending out the emails to all of the, you know, certainly you have some number of email addresses right there. And even that, it would be a value for your team, your people in your organization already.
Linda: Oh yeah. I definitely would. You know, I would definitely do that because somewhere in that group might be people looking for a next opportunity.
Dean: That's exactly right.
Dean: So you start with dates.
Linda: Makes a lot of sense.
Dean: With dates. Yeah. You start with that base. And, you know, that's why I never would recommend for somebody to start a podcast as the first thing they do if they don't have anybody. Because it just doesn't make sense.
Linda: And I can get more people in there, too, knowing that that's going to make the podcast even more beneficial. Fabulous.
Dean: You got it. So that's a pretty solid model right there, Linda.
Linda: Yes. Without a doubt. This one is clear and concise, which makes me move a lot easier and faster, right?
Linda: Great space doesn't help me move. This is perfect, Dean. This is exactly what I needed.
Dean: Awesome. So what's your recap here? What did you hear?
Linda: Okay, so here's what I heard. What I heard is, you know, I need to use the things that I have, which are books and the podcast that we're putting together. And I know what my target audience is. What's the broadest amount I have is 35-40. I'll actually find out that number. I'm also going to include the number of 4100 that I already have, because inside there is maybe some great people I need to get to know better and be more valid to. I also know I can use the scorecard to help from those 35 shuffle out the few cream of the crop that I'm looking for. And, you know, I'm very clear that my avatar is Ginger and Martha and not Veronica. Although Veronica will get value and Veronica might [crosstalk 01:00:56] some of Ginger or Martha.
Dean: That's right.
Linda: And I'm going to do Facebook Ads to get people to take the book. I was about to send the book out, so I'm really glad I talked to you first. I'm going to not do that. I'm sending it out with a letter. I'm just going to send them the book. With a sticker on the front. I'm not doing that. I'm going to do Facebook Ads. And I'm going to specifically do the three states that I have so that I don't wind up with, you know, the other million realtors that are out there.
Dean: Yeah, exactly. Right.
Linda: Asking me for the book when I've only got 2,000.
Linda: And by the way, someday I might move out to the rest of the group, but right now, this is the target audience I want. And when I do these podcasts to get the transcriptions and repurpose that information. I'm going to, you know, work with the group I have and make that database. I mean, these are all things I know because it's how you built your real estate business. You gotta have a database, you gotta keep feeding it every day.
Dean: That's it.
Linda: I've got even more of a sense of urgency to feed it. And then so I'm going to educate and motivate and I'm going to put a signature at the bottom on all of the different ways that they can work with me.
Dean: I love it.
Linda: Did I miss anything?
Dean: No, I think you're doing great. That's a surefire plan.
Linda: Yep. Without a doubt.
Dean: I think we done hatched us an evil scheme right there.
Linda: We hatched a real good evil scheme. I knew you were the man to do that with, Dean. You got that kind of as your unique ability, right?
Dean: That's awesome. Well, I really enjoyed that. That went fast.
Linda: Yeah, that was awesome. Well, we were right in your lane of everything that's so simple and easy for you, right? When it's in our lane, we can see it when other people can't, right?
Dean: That's it. Plus real estate, which was great. I love it.
Linda: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, usually you got all kinds of different industries, right?
Dean: Yeah, that's it.
Linda: Awesome, great.
Dean: Well, awesome. I really enjoyed that.
Linda: Gonna keep working. I'm going to keep working till I find a date in Florida that works. I just turned down five speaking opportunities next year so that I can have more white space to do some of the things that come up that I have to go, "Nope, can't do it. I'm gone to this state. I'm gone to that state."
Dean: Oh, perfect. Good, good.
Linda: Hopefully we'll keep working until I find something and I'll come visit you in sunny Florida.
Dean: I'd love that. Okay, perfect.
Dean: Thanks, Linda.
Linda: Thanks so much, Dean. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a great weekend.
Dean: You too. Bye-bye.
Dean: And there we have it. Another great episode. If you'd like to continue the conversation here, just go to MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com. You can download a copy of The More Cheese, Less Whiskers book. And what I would recommend also is that you try out our Profit Activator Scorecard, where you can see how the eight profit activators are either growing or slowing your business right now. And that's available for you at ProfitActivatorScore.com.
And in exciting news, I've just launched a new podcast, which is a little different than the other podcast. It's not a weekly scheduled podcast. It's called Thinking Out Loud with Dean Jackson. And this is a podcast that is my reports from the field. I get to sort of just record when I have an experience or I have a thought that I'd like to document and get out. And this is using a new podcast platform that I'm excited about.
Because together I worked with Paul Colligan on creating this platform that allows me to start podcasting just with a Siri command. So it all happens through my iPhone. And so I say my Siri command. It automatically starts the podcast where I just press "okay". It starts recording. And then I press "Okay", record the title and intro. And as soon as I'm done, it automatically behind the scenes sends everything to the audio to get processed and sends it up to Libsyn. And it's posted live on iTunes within minutes of me having the thought.
So I was at Genius Network in Phoenix this week. And I recorded a couple of episodes at the breaks. And I'm super excited about how this is going to play out as a great tool for me to be very nimble. And sort of be sporadic. Not like a weekly scheduled thing. But if you want to check it out and subscribe whenever there is a new episode, it'll be right there in your feed so you can get to listen to it, too.
So that's it for this week. Have a great week, and I will talk to you soon. That podcast, by the way, is called Thinking Out Loud with Dean Jackson. If you just search that in your podcast app it'll come right up. Have a great week.